Levia Files 2: GM Harassment and Censorship

[Gumb]

i completely get what you're saying Ravel, but the point i'm trying to make isn't that i shouldn't have been hit with a mute, what i'm trying to highlight here is that i think it is a little weird to hit me with a 24 hour mute along with a final warning / threat of a ban, considering all i post is stupid and benign harmless shitposting like "why cant paladins use maces on this server?" and etc, when i see people *literally* call each other the n word and shit in chat, and then Halo jokes with "hey, if you guys dont behave, i'm gonna hand out more five minute mutes!"

you see what im getting at fam?

Yeah... Speaking for myself here as a 2 year turtle player who just came here recently, this is fucking insane. I am out of here, this is guaranteed to only get worse if they are going to these lengths. Starting to doubt this project completely. I regret donating the $100 I did now and definitely will not be getting all of the other QoL and cosmetic features I had on turtle. Fuck Levia and their GM pets. Levias top guy and recruiting spammer being named after cuckold porn because that is the most creative "haha so funny" degenerate reddit name they could think of is enough to hate the entire guild. Players have the freedom to hate each other just like they have the freedom to manipulate the market. Fuck this retail baby server. Just joined and do not give a fuck about whatever the drama is but this bullshit makes me think they really are doing corrupt shit, probably handing them whatever the fuck they want. At this point i am saying fuck the corrupt octo staff, you spit on what turtle made with your guild favoritism and inserting yourself into player social affairs. I now thoroughly believe the rumors you helped that guild cheat because of your reaction to this all. You could have just told people to use the profanity filter and ignore list and spent your time doing something actually productive. Thanks for the warning everyone.

[Kestrel]

Just as a point of clarification, bans should not be handed out for chat violations except for in extreme cases (deliberate multi day individual harassment that continues after several warnings/mutes, RMT, N-word spam, ect). I have sent out a reminder to the GM's that this is our policy and that any bans for chat only violations (outside of RMT/N-word spam) should be cleared by me or our head GM first (with me still reviewing them all).

We do have more uniform guidelines now but it may take a few days to get everyone on board and super familiar with how they all are handled. If issues like this continue we may need to revisit our moderation guidelines. It is a bit hard to determine the fine line of what constitutes harassment especially when talking about a situation as complex as the Levia guild's reputation. Right now our policy is that generic insult flinging in public on macros and stuff would be considered harassment, you are welcome to talk about them publicly and criticize them however you want, but don't include #FUCK<InsertAnyGuild> on your macros please.

[Kestrel]

Yeah... Speaking for myself here as a 2 year turtle player who just came here recently, this is fucking insane. I am out of here, this is guaranteed to only get worse if they are going to these lengths. Starting to doubt this project completely. I regret donating the $100 I did now and definitely will not be getting all of the other QoL and cosmetic features I had on turtle. Fuck Levia and their GM pets. Levias top guy and recruiting spammer being named after cuckold porn because that is the most creative "haha so funny" degenerate reddit name they could think of is enough to hate the entire guild. Players have the freedom to hate each other just like they have the freedom to manipulate the market. Fuck this retail baby server. Just joined and do not give a fuck about whatever the drama is but this bullshit makes me think they really are doing corrupt shit, probably handing them whatever the fuck they want. At this point i am saying fuck the corrupt octo staff, you spit on what turtle made with your guild favoritism and inserting yourself into player social affairs. I now thoroughly believe the rumors you helped that guild cheat because of your reaction to this all. You could have just told people to use the profanity filter and ignore list and spent your time doing something actually productive. Thanks for the warning everyone.

Is there a copy pasta for this?

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, no assistance has been given to Levia by any GM. One GM (no longer here) did talk with a Levia member about their improper banning of a player. There is no favoritism happening to any guild. Having a #FUCK<InsertGuildName> will result in a mute warning no matter what guild it is about.

Chat moderation (and name moderation) is not something that is easy, and it will take a while until things are uniform and our whole moderation team is fully in sync. That is just how these things go especially when the entire team is brand new on a new server with way more growth than was expected.

[Gumb]

Yeah... Speaking for myself here as a 2 year turtle player who just came here recently, this is fucking insane. I am out of here, this is guaranteed to only get worse if they are going to these lengths. Starting to doubt this project completely. I regret donating the $100 I did now and definitely will not be getting all of the other QoL and cosmetic features I had on turtle. Fuck Levia and their GM pets. Levias top guy and recruiting spammer being named after cuckold porn because that is the most creative "haha so funny" degenerate reddit name they could think of is enough to hate the entire guild. Players have the freedom to hate each other just like they have the freedom to manipulate the market. Fuck this retail baby server. Just joined and do not give a fuck about whatever the drama is but this bullshit makes me think they really are doing corrupt shit, probably handing them whatever the fuck they want. At this point i am saying fuck the corrupt octo staff, you spit on what turtle made with your guild favoritism and inserting yourself into player social affairs. I now thoroughly believe the rumors you helped that guild cheat because of your reaction to this all. You could have just told people to use the profanity filter and ignore list and spent your time doing something actually productive. Thanks for the warning everyone.

Is there a copy pasta for this?

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, no assistance has been given to Levia by any GM. One GM (no longer here) did talk with a Levia member about their improper banning of a player. There is no favoritism happening to any guild. Having a #FUCK<InsertGuildName> will result in a mute warning no matter what guild it is about.

Chat moderation (and name moderation) is not something that is easy, and it will take a while until things are uniform and our whole moderation team is fully in sync. That is just how these things go especially when the entire team is brand new on a new server with way more growth than was expected.

Sure man definitely a copypasta, as if people don't get upset enough to express themselves after spending over a hundred dollars. https://imgur.com/a/TL1sE23 . Seriously though, the idea that words that can be avoided with the use of a built in profanity filter results in anything is just stupid to me. Quite literally retail nonsense. No thanks.

[Fruity]

Is there a copy pasta for this?

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, no assistance has been given to Levia by any GM. One GM (no longer here) did talk with a Levia member about their improper banning of a player. There is no favoritism happening to any guild. Having a #FUCK<InsertGuildName> will result in a mute warning no matter what guild it is about.

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, but when threats of a ban are being handed out for saying "Levia are world boss boosters" surely you can see how that's the public perception? I understand that managing this Levia situation has been a clusterfuck for all of you guys, but you need to stop trying to coddle these people so hard - they are toxic players who have made a bad reputation for themselves. Until it actually tips into personal threats or whatever have you, you should probably just let the community handle it how they see fit. I have many fond memories of /spitting on ninja looters or scummy guild officers back in the day, or warning everyone that it's a dogshit group when they advertise in chat. Until people start to levy actual targeted harassment towards these people that go above the content of the game, I think you should stop hovering a hand over them so much and let them lay in the bed they've made. You cannot expect to do these hyper-competetive, cut-throat strategies that Levia does without earning some haters, and if you guys plan on shielding them from that, you'll never see the end of it. I've seen a very clear, obvious effort from the staff team to kill this Levia thing, and it just seems like you're *trying too hard*.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, if you want to reach the top by stepping on everyone else below you, then you will be villainized, it's quite simple, and excuse my language but seeing everyone from Levia act like such baby bitches about it is just sad. Use your ignore function. It's not that difficult.

[Kestrel]

Is there a copy pasta for this?

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, no assistance has been given to Levia by any GM. One GM (no longer here) did talk with a Levia member about their improper banning of a player. There is no favoritism happening to any guild. Having a #FUCK<InsertGuildName> will result in a mute warning no matter what guild it is about.

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, but when threats of a ban are being handed out for saying "Levia are world boss boosters" surely you can see how that's the public perception? I understand that managing this Levia situation has been a clusterfuck for all of you guys, but you need to stop trying to coddle these people so hard - they are toxic players who have made a bad reputation for themselves. Until it actually tips into personal threats or whatever have you, you should probably just let the community handle it how they see fit. I have many fond memories of /spitting on ninja looters or scummy guild officers back in the day, or warning everyone that it's a dogshit group when they advertise in chat. Until people start to levy actual targeted harassment towards these people that go above the content of the game, I think you should stop hovering a hand over them so much and let them lay in the bed they've made. You cannot expect to do these hyper-competetive, cut-throat strategies that Levia does without earning some haters, and if you guys plan on shielding them from that, you'll never see the end of it. I've seen a very clear, obvious effort from the staff team to kill this Levia thing, and it just seems like you're *trying too hard*.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, if you want to reach the top by stepping on everyone else below you, then you will be villainized, it's quite simple, and excuse my language but seeing everyone from Levia act like such baby bitches about it is just sad. Use your ignore function. It's not that difficult.

I agree that is not good, and was not a result of a GM who is close with Levia, it was a result of our moderation guidelines still being ironed out and edge cases tested. I don't want to coddle them at all, I also want to be certain that we enforce our guidelines and rules equally.

I strongly encourage people to /spit or use any other features in game (including chat) to hate on people, the issue is where is the line between that and harassment. I was directly asked by our GM's if the #FUCKLEVIA should be allowed and I decided that given our public ruleset that crosses the line into generic harassment. If you and the community disagree perhaps I/we need to adjust the line that we draw, but that is how that occurred.

I think that the "obvious efforts from the staff" that are being seen are really just a readiness of Levia members to make tickets, and a desire from our support team to respond to tickets. I will try to look into the ticket reporting history now to see if there are any individuals who may be too quick to report, and perhaps a chat with them with a ban warning will solve our issues.

Either way I want to make it extremely clear how this is occurring. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and if it doesn't stop squeaking it gets a (ban) hammer. So either way this will be resolved but none of this is an incident of GMs being in Levia's pocked or supporting the guild.

[Ellinna3601]

Is there a copy pasta for this?

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, no assistance has been given to Levia by any GM. One GM (no longer here) did talk with a Levia member about their improper banning of a player. There is no favoritism happening to any guild. Having a #FUCK<InsertGuildName> will result in a mute warning no matter what guild it is about.

Nobody has been banned for talking shit on Levia, but when threats of a ban are being handed out for saying "Levia are world boss boosters" surely you can see how that's the public perception? I understand that managing this Levia situation has been a clusterfuck for all of you guys, but you need to stop trying to coddle these people so hard - they are toxic players who have made a bad reputation for themselves. Until it actually tips into personal threats or whatever have you, you should probably just let the community handle it how they see fit. I have many fond memories of /spitting on ninja looters or scummy guild officers back in the day, or warning everyone that it's a dogshit group when they advertise in chat. Until people start to levy actual targeted harassment towards these people that go above the content of the game, I think you should stop hovering a hand over them so much and let them lay in the bed they've made. You cannot expect to do these hyper-competetive, cut-throat strategies that Levia does without earning some haters, and if you guys plan on shielding them from that, you'll never see the end of it. I've seen a very clear, obvious effort from the staff team to kill this Levia thing, and it just seems like you're *trying too hard*.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, if you want to reach the top by stepping on everyone else below you, then you will be villainized, it's quite simple, and excuse my language but seeing everyone from Levia act like such baby bitches about it is just sad. Use your ignore function. It's not that difficult.

This post sums up my thoughts perfectly. Putting all the accusations aside, one can simply take a look at what Levia GM posted here: https://octowow.st/forum/viewtopic.php?t=858&start=60 by scrolling down to the post of "Russ1anrenegade". The part about market manipulation and the overall tone of this post is tone-deaf at best and repulsive at worst. This is no rumour or drama mongering, it is literally the GM of Levia making this post. I play in a guild where multiple times over the last 3 years I had to deal with people passing out mid-raid due to drinking too much or smoking too much weed. That is the sort of mentality I am used to seeing, and I have nothing against people who play the game at a serious level. However; when those people boast about how they used people like me to pay for their guild bank in a boasting manner, I will dislike those people. No amount of intervention from above will make people like Levia. They dug their own grave by making that post.

No amount of muting people will make people like Levia. This is a social problem at this point. The massive disdain from everyone in the server directed at Levia is literally an immune system response from a community that is used to being loving and chill facing what can be best described as "alien". I have not written a single message in worldchat regarding Levia, but this GM treatment of Fruity is absurd. Fruity has been a very nice personality in worldchat, never speaking a single word of politics or "no-no" topics, instead harmlessly shitposting about in-game topics.

I think the biggest problem stems from a lack of unified stance from the GMs regarding this manner. The developer team and GMs should be on the same page regarding this Levia situation. When one GM mutes someone when they shouldn't have, or lets something slide when they shouldn't have, it feeds into this back and forth between people where whoever's ticket manages to find a favorable GM for their cause gets the last word. A statement regarding this all either internally to GMs, or to players would be nice to hopefully end this situation. By their own words, Levia plays by the rules, and people dislike that attitude. No matter what happens, that dislike will continue as a community issue.

[Pancakes]

Right now our policy is that generic insult flinging in public on macros and stuff would be considered harassment, you are welcome to talk about them publicly and criticize them however you want, but don't include #FUCK<InsertAnyGuild> on your macros please.

Thank you once again for the measured response Kestrel.

Going back to Ollga’s original issue. As you said, I think we can all agree #FuckLevia should be off the table.

“Levia members pay 3x” in an advertising macro is allowed, correct?

[Kestrel]

Right now our policy is that generic insult flinging in public on macros and stuff would be considered harassment, you are welcome to talk about them publicly and criticize them however you want, but don't include #FUCK<InsertAnyGuild> on your macros please.

Thank you once again for the measured response Kestrel.

Going back to Ollga’s original issue. As you said, I think we can all agree #FuckLevia should be off the table.

“Levia members pay 3x” in an advertising macro is allowed, correct?

That is correct

[Kestrel]

This post sums up my thoughts perfectly. Putting all the accusations aside, one can simply take a look at what Levia GM posted here: https://octowow.st/forum/viewtopic.php?t=858&start=60 by scrolling down to the post of "Russ1anrenegade". The part about market manipulation and the overall tone of this post is tone-deaf at best and repulsive at worst. This is no rumour or drama mongering, it is literally the GM of Levia making this post. I play in a guild where multiple times over the last 3 years I had to deal with people passing out mid-raid due to drinking too much or smoking too much weed. That is the sort of mentality I am used to seeing, and I have nothing against people who play the game at a serious level. However; when those people boast about how they used people like me to pay for their guild bank in a boasting manner, I will dislike those people. No amount of intervention from above will make people like Levia. They dug their own grave by making that post.

No amount of muting people will make people like Levia. This is a social problem at this point. The massive disdain from everyone in the server directed at Levia is literally an immune system response from a community that is used to being loving and chill facing what can be best described as "alien". I have not written a single message in worldchat regarding Levia, but this GM treatment of Fruity is absurd. Fruity has been a very nice personality in worldchat, never speaking a single word of politics or "no-no" topics, instead harmlessly shitposting about in-game topics.

I think the biggest problem stems from a lack of unified stance from the GMs regarding this manner. The developer team and GMs should be on the same page regarding this Levia situation. When one GM mutes someone when they shouldn't have, or lets something slide when they shouldn't have, it feeds into this back and forth between people where whoever's ticket manages to find a favorable GM for their cause gets the last word. A statement regarding this all either internally to GMs, or to players would be nice to hopefully end this situation. By their own words, Levia plays by the rules, and people dislike that attitude. No matter what happens, that dislike will continue as a community issue.

Just to clarify again, I agree and don't think anyone on the team has the goal of making people like Levia. We should be, and I think that we are, on the same page about Levia. I think the difference internally mostly is around general moderation criteria and Levia happens to be the subject of the most "on the fence" behavior right now as we try to figure this out.

In a more meta sense, I think that we as a community are all trying to figure out together what is acceptable in this new space and what is not. This Levia fiasco is just the inciting incident for the conversation. At least that is how it feels internally and to me personally, idk if the rest of the community feels that way.