Blackwing Lair Arrives November 1st

[Dzielkus]

Unfortunately, these items aren't in database anywhere so I can't prove you all wrong. And by the way T3 PvP set is like Naxx/Kara40

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Releasing epic pvp weapon but not sets is stupid.
But seems i won't care, probably will take a brake.

Ps: pvp epic set required max 11 rank for pants, it doesnt make any sense to unlock it with "rank 13".
My assumption is that r12-14 was req for t3 pvp set, but i havent seen it on TA/Nord.

[Serdos777]

For those who are completely out of the loop and don’t understand which gear set is supposed to be released alongside the weapons in the BWL content—take a look and educate yourselves.

https://octowow.st/db/?search=Partisan#items:0+1

[Zvyrhol]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

[Nnz]

Some people are delusional and don't even know what gear was supposed to drop. These people complaining about people being "too strong in the beginning of BWL" are also.. simply stupid - like it would make ANY difference at all lawl. Most guilds will 2-hour tops clean it first day anyway, still t1 pieces with BONUSES are superior in terms of DPS. Zvyrhol, please consider not participating in this topic as you're one of these people - if you're comparing raw stats on items and not including the bonuses you're the one with basically zero knowledge about this game.

Im gonna take a break except for raid-logging too, it was fun while it lasted.

[Serdos777]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

Look, buddy, you’re clearly just a local troll—the type who loves to grab attention with foolish comparisons and comments. You still don’t grasp what’s actually going on here or how all of this started. Let me explain it to you—and others like you—one last time:
1) There was never any mention in the roadmap—from the very beginning—that PvP gear wouldn’t be released alongside the BWL (Blackwing Lair) content. That’s how it’s always been handled, regardless of whether you’re playing here, on the "Turtle" server, or on the official servers. There were no warnings, nothing. If this had been known from the start, nobody would have spent their time grinding Battlegrounds (BGs) from the moment the server opened, only to end up with mediocre gear by the time Ahn'Qiraj (AQ) launched. (In fact, the BGs would have been dead on arrival.)
2) The administration delayed the release of the content, which led to players who grind BGs accumulating massive amounts of Honor.
3) This gear was specifically designed for this stage of the game; it serves as an intermediate set between the BWL and AQ40 content. The original, classic-version PvP set is also released during the BWL phase, but its stats are significantly better—so much so that players use it all the way into Naxxramas. (You can’t do that with this "partisan" set.)
4) Don’t belittle the efforts of people who spent months grinding for this gear just so they could enter BWL with reasonably viable equipment. Some people have the time for that; others don’t. If you don’t like PvP, stay in your "cave," farm your BiS (Best-in-Slot) gear, and go into BWL wearing that instead. No one is asking for your Best-in-Slot (BiS) gear—the items you’ll be wearing all the way until Naxxramas—to be taken away or nerfed. Just look at the belt from Ragnaros, or the BRE (Bonereaver's Edge) that Warriors and Paladins eventually swap out for a Menethil—is that "fair" too? You could go on like this forever. It’s certainly not your place to decide when I, or anyone else who put in the grind, should receive our hard-earned rewards. There is no "middle ground" to be found here. No one is going to accept what you and the administration are proposing. I’d love to see how you—the administration—would react if, after working for three months and expecting your well-deserved paycheck, your boss told you, "I’ll pay you in another two and a half months; for now, just sit tight and endure it—try living on thin air."

[Dapr]

This is the second most foolish decision you’ve made regarding PvP players. The first was slashing the experience gained from Battlegrounds, effectively killing the option to level a character through PvP. And now, having to wait another six months to obtain gear that will already be obsolete by the time Ahn'Qiraj is released—that’s just absurd. This gear was originally designed to be introduced alongside Tier 2 content. It seems like your actions are intentionally driving people to abandon our server, as there is quite simply nothing left here for a PvP player to do.

Yeah I doubt the server will be thriving after 5 months of BWL raid logging and no PVP gear out. Absurd decision and terrible roadmap atm.

ES + PVP gear should be released along with BWL and then AQ 3 months after BWL. Pretty simple and logical.

Everything you and the others above have said is spot on. People just don’t realize that only a small fraction of the player base actually uses the forums; once this update drops, a whole crowd of unhappy players is going to show up asking, "What the hell? Where’s the PvP gear?" Personally, if the PvP gear doesn't arrive on the 1st alongside BWL, I’m done with this server—there’ll be absolutely nothing left for me to do here. I have no intention of spending another five months grinding Battlegrounds with no objective, only to end up with an obsolete set of armor. No, thanks. We’ve already spent two months being fed empty promises while the server dealt with DDoS attacks, and now we aren't even getting the gear that was originally designed for the T2 content phase. Just think about it: you’re expected to spend a total of 10 months playing Battlegrounds in blue-quality PvP gear, farming millions of Honor, all to end up with a pile of useless junk that nobody wants. If it’s not there by November 1st, you can officially consider the PvP scene on this server dead.

Yes, November 1st is going to be a terrible disappointment for PvP players

[Zvyrhol]

still t1 pieces with BONUSES are superior in terms of DPS. Zvyrhol, please consider not participating in this topic as you're one of these people - if you're comparing raw stats on items and not including the bonuses you're the one with basically zero knowledge about this game.

Discipline T1 bonuses are almost useless DPS wise so in my case it's 100% valid. If there is at least 1 spec of 27 that doesn't benefit that much from bonuses, this reasoning makes sense.

1) There was never any mention in the roadmap—from the very beginning—that PvP gear wouldn’t be released alongside the BWL (Blackwing Lair) content. That’s how it’s always been handled, regardless of whether you’re playing here, on the "Turtle" server, or on the official servers. There were no warnings, nothing. If this had been known from the start, nobody would have spent their time grinding Battlegrounds (BGs) from the moment the server opened, only to end up with mediocre gear by the time Ahn'Qiraj (AQ) launched. (In fact, the BGs would have been dead on arrival.)

I agree with first part. Yes, Octo made mistake that they haven't said it clearly. Now they reap what they sow. There are a few more flaws in their roadmap (for example they don't mention release date of arena anywhere).
However, second part of this quote is unthinkable to me. People play BGs MAINLY because they want to, not to because of incentive of using that in PvE - at least it's my case and I know some PvPers who think the same way. Honor is still worth farming even now - this gear will be the best for some time at least for some specs in PvP due to massive stamina combined with offensive potential. And with release of T3 PvP set, there will be massive amounts of Honor needed to purchase these pieces (along conquest points ofc).

I admit I lost desire to respond to your other points. I will be honest: I don't think you are honest person. I suppose you work for company that sells PvP boosts and you've recently found out your business can't earn that much because of this change so you now put pressure on devs with these fresh forum accounts to lobby for overpowered gear being accessible on day 1. Call me a fool, I don't care.

Also, using AI on forum post is red flag to me. My AI said your reply was 75-85% AI generated. Calling me a local troll and using cheap discussions techniques like calling me "buddy" doesn't help either.

[Serdos777]

still t1 pieces with BONUSES are superior in terms of DPS. Zvyrhol, please consider not participating in this topic as you're one of these people - if you're comparing raw stats on items and not including the bonuses you're the one with basically zero knowledge about this game.

Discipline T1 bonuses are almost useless DPS wise so in my case it's 100% valid. If there is at least 1 spec of 27 that doesn't benefit that much from bonuses, this reasoning makes sense.

1) There was never any mention in the roadmap—from the very beginning—that PvP gear wouldn’t be released alongside the BWL (Blackwing Lair) content. That’s how it’s always been handled, regardless of whether you’re playing here, on the "Turtle" server, or on the official servers. There were no warnings, nothing. If this had been known from the start, nobody would have spent their time grinding Battlegrounds (BGs) from the moment the server opened, only to end up with mediocre gear by the time Ahn'Qiraj (AQ) launched. (In fact, the BGs would have been dead on arrival.)

I agree with first part. Yes, Octo made mistake that they haven't said it clearly. Now they reap what they sow. There are a few more flaws in their roadmap (for example they don't mention release date of arena anywhere).
However, second part of this quote is unthinkable to me. People play BGs MAINLY because they want to, not to because of incentive of using that in PvE - at least it's my case and I know some PvPers who think the same way. Honor is still worth farming even now - this gear will be the best for some time at least for some specs in PvP due to massive stamina combined with offensive potential. And with release of T3 PvP set, there will be massive amounts of Honor needed to purchase these pieces (along conquest points ofc).

I admit I lost desire to respond to your other points. I will be honest: I don't think you are honest person. I suppose you work for company that sells PvP boosts and you've recently found out your business can't earn that much because of this change so you now put pressure on devs with these fresh forum accounts to lobby for overpowered gear being accessible on day 1. Call me a fool, I don't care.

Also, using AI on forum post is red flag to me. My AI said your reply was 75-85% AI generated. Calling me a local troll and using cheap discussions techniques like calling me "buddy" doesn't help either.

At first, I thought you were just a local troll, but now I’m fairly certain that you’re also completely out of your mind. Fine, I’m done writing to you—it’s already clear that your next messages will likely consist of you trying to prove that aliens exist or spouting some other nonsense. I’ve already said everything I had to say to people like you a dozen times over. If you’re incapable of grasping obvious things—things that any sane person would understand—then your posts aren’t even worth reading, unless it’s just to have a laugh at your stupidity and clear mental instability. And one more thing: I use Google Translate—try to wrap your head around the fact that there are many other languages ​​in the world besides English. That might come as quite a revelation to you—just as it would to your own primitive artificial intelligence.

[Roses]

Can we have official statement from kestrel ? About the pvp gear coming with es. I really dont like the decision, and it might make me give up on pvp and just raid log

[Unsullied]

I for one won't be pvping once BWL is released as there is no reason to anymore. The whole idea of putting every individual piece of T2 gear on some sort of grand pedestal and making it the basis of making other things harder is retarded (i.e. Onyxia). Anyone who has played vanilla knows this. By this argument the gear that comes out of a phase one raid like Onyxia and Molten Core should not be as good as BWL gear.. It's just a stupid way to think and develop the game around.