Nerf/rework holy paladin in PvP - Buff rogues & mages

[Knifewrench]

missed a keypart where resi in tbc only reduced the Crit bonus dmg, and on octo its total crit dmg. but u wouldnt know because u some 4k hp troll

[Morag]

The talent that allows Holy paladins to get an extra Holy Shock after using Crusader Strike makes no sense at all. That's a Ret ability. If anything, Holy Strike should trigger some sort of effect, but not an extra Holy Shock. That's a bit much.

Dampening hits all the non-hybrid burst classes (war, rogue, mage) hard. Not much can be done about that except removing dampening, but then we'd be back to the blow-up meta.

Reverting the nerfs to Shatter and Flash Freeze (let it trigger off Blessing of Freedom again) would go a long way to helping frost mages. Right now their burst potential is pretty sad.

Arcane is just not very good in PvP. It's S-tier in PvE where you can stand around channeling missiles and casting rupture when Temporal Convergence pops, but it's too prone to being locked down and blown up in PvP.

Ok holy clowncomment, how the fuck is resetting a 31 talent in HOLY SPEC ever ret, ret doesnt have holyshock you fucking delulu clown. Ur more retarded then the backpeddlers and trash in my bgs since xrealm.

Why would you assume I was talking about Holy Shock when I specifically mentioned Crusader Strike and then added that Holy Strike should trigger an effect instead?

[Knifewrench]

The talent that allows Holy paladins to get an extra Holy Shock after using Crusader Strike makes no sense at all. That's a Ret ability. If anything, Holy Strike should trigger some sort of effect, but not an extra Holy Shock. That's a bit much.

Dampening hits all the non-hybrid burst classes (war, rogue, mage) hard. Not much can be done about that except removing dampening, but then we'd be back to the blow-up meta.

Reverting the nerfs to Shatter and Flash Freeze (let it trigger off Blessing of Freedom again) would go a long way to helping frost mages. Right now their burst potential is pretty sad.

Arcane is just not very good in PvP. It's S-tier in PvE where you can stand around channeling missiles and casting rupture when Temporal Convergence pops, but it's too prone to being locked down and blown up in PvP.

Ok holy clowncomment, how the fuck is resetting a 31 talent in HOLY SPEC ever ret, ret doesnt have holyshock you fucking delulu clown. Ur more retarded then the backpeddlers and trash in my bgs since xrealm.

Why would you assume I was talking about Holy Shock when I specifically mentioned Crusader Strike and then added that Holy Strike should trigger an effect instead?

Because thats a baseline skill. And they didnt use holystrike to resrt because thats op, they intentionnaly make u chose to use a global doing nothing to reset holyshock.

[Morag]

Yeah, a baseline skill that is oriented toward damage. It doesn't make sense to create a talent that ties it to Holy Shock in a healing tree.

[Knifewrench]

Yeah, a baseline skill that is oriented toward damage. It doesn't make sense to create a talent that ties it to Holy Shock in a healing tree.

U do realise its intentionally done so u cant holy strike ontop... it makes perfect sense having to choose between aoe heal+ mana regen vs a global to purely reset holyshock.

[Morag]

I understand the logic of it, but I don't think Holy Shock's cooldown should be resettable period. It's already a strong enough ability with Divine Favor, Illumination, and Daybreak. I'm running prot with Holy Shock so I don't have access to Daybreak and I don't have the points to max out Divine Favor and Illumination and my Holy Shocks are still healing for 800 non-crit after dampening.

[Knifewrench]

I understand the logic of it, but I don't think Holy Shock's cooldown should be resettable period. It's already a strong enough ability with Divine Favor, Illumination, and Daybreak. I'm running prot with Holy Shock so I don't have access to Daybreak and I don't have the points to max out Divine Favor and Illumination and my Holy Shocks are still healing for 800 non-crit after dampening.

This was done because resto shaman has 2x the healout put of paladin. You gonna ask to make fol samen output as lesser healwBe to make up?

[Morag]

I ran a restohance shaman back when the final rank of Frostbrand was bugged and benefitted from Windfury Totem and Rockbiter gave 10% mitigation. It was a stronger spec overall back then even though Lesser Heal didn't apply Healing Way.

Flash of Light is a different type of spell than shaman and priest's 1.5-second heals. It has less throughput but greater efficiency. But Twow added another rank of FoL, which improved its throughput enough to make it usable as a main heal in PvP under everything but the heaviest of pressure. You also have to take into consideration all the things a paladin can do to mitigate or nullify incoming damage (Hand of Sacrifice, Blessing of Protection, stun) when comparing paladins to shaman.

As someone who has played both pretty extensively in PvP, I consider paladin to be by far the better PvP healer.

[Knifewrench]

I ran a restohance shaman back when the final rank of Frostbrand was bugged and benefitted from Windfury Totem and Rockbiter gave 10% mitigation. It was a stronger spec overall back then even though Lesser Heal didn't apply Healing Way.

Flash of Light is a different type of spell than shaman and priest's 1.5-second heals. It has less throughput but greater efficiency. But Twow added another rank of FoL, which improved its throughput significantly enough to make it usable as a main heal in PvP under everything but the heaviest of pressure. You also have to take into consideration all the things a paladin can do to mitigate or nullify incoming damage (Hand of Sacrifice, Blessing of Protection, stun) when comparing paladins to shaman.

As someone who has played both pretty extensively in PvP, I consider paladin to be by far the best PvP healer.

I playd both and i playd actual resto shaman not some bad hybrid, it was giga op. Specialy with t2 pvp and other gear. Wich pala benefits less from. Also shaman has grounding and 5sec interupts. Wich pala doesnt. And aoe slow st slows. Aoe dispells.
People non stop complained i was 2 tanky as resto shaman. And this was post rockbiter nerf because that was a meme nerf that didnt rly impact resto spec because it already evolved to 13/17/21 after reverb change. Pala is weaker if no xfaction then resto sham purely because not facing op shocksham and perma spam es from every shaman.

[Ollie]

I ran a restohance shaman back when the final rank of Frostbrand was bugged and benefitted from Windfury Totem and Rockbiter gave 10% mitigation. It was a stronger spec overall back then even though Lesser Heal didn't apply Healing Way.

Flash of Light is a different type of spell than shaman and priest's 1.5-second heals. It has less throughput but greater efficiency. But Twow added another rank of FoL, which improved its throughput significantly enough to make it usable as a main heal in PvP under everything but the heaviest of pressure. You also have to take into consideration all the things a paladin can do to mitigate or nullify incoming damage (Hand of Sacrifice, Blessing of Protection, stun) when comparing paladins to shaman.

As someone who has played both pretty extensively in PvP, I consider paladin to be by far the best PvP healer.

I playd both and i playd actual resto shaman not some bad hybrid, it was giga op. Specialy with t2 pvp and other gear. Wich pala benefits less from. Also shaman has grounding and 5sec interupts. Wich pala doesnt. And aoe slow st slows. Aoe dispells.
People non stop complained i was 2 tanky as resto shaman. And this was post rockbiter nerf because that was a meme nerf that didnt rly impact resto spec because it already evolved to 13/17/21 after reverb change. Pala is weaker if no xfaction then resto sham purely because not facing op shocksham and perma spam es from every shaman.

You're being extremely unreasonable, once a shaman is nature locked you cant do shit other than "tank" the damage.

Meanwhile, paladins can literally get an immune bubble and lay on hands to full hp. Everyone knows holy paladins are op and needs a Nerf now please stop you just look like you're trying to save your class and honestly im tired of seeing people like you try and defend this stupid ass garbage design. Retail wow has better design than this honestly