Blackwing Lair Arrives November 1st

[Nandieb]

I also got to add, I find it absolutely ridiculous that you are framing the fact that some players are sitting on a lot of honor as even in the slightest negatively!
These are players that are investing their time into the server, actively participating in making it a living world and sticking with it through all the DDoS trouble and suddenly they are getting told by the Devs that this was a bad thing.
I am really pissed off right now

[Serdos777]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

Thanks for reconsidering this, but can we perhaps meet in the middle ground since having to wait for another 2 months for epic pvp set is still very absurd.

We've grinded honor for so long and it just doesnt seem fair for those dedicated players.

My friend, there is no "middle ground" here. It’s perfectly obvious to everyone that this is a deliberate attempt to stretch out the content—something that was never stated anywhere beforehand. People are only finding out about this a couple of weeks before the release of BWL (Blackwing Lair). That’s just not right. Every single player knew that when BWL launched, PvP gear and weapons would become available—gear that people spent a massive amount of time—believe me—working toward. It’s always been this way, regardless of whether you’re playing on an official server or a private one: when the BWL phase hits, PvP gear is released, and the next tier of PvP ranks is unlocked. But the developers simply *don’t like* the fact that people invested so much time and effort preparing for the BWL launch to gear up for a better gameplay experience, so they’ve decided to just withhold that gear. It’s absolutely absurd! And what this admin is writing right now is just laughable—sitting there suggesting some kind of "middle ground." This is a major mistake on their part, and they simply refuse to admit it. Look, I wouldn’t have an issue if this had been laid out on a roadmap five months ago—but it wasn’t. They’re just presenting us with a *fait accompli*. A huge number of people have been grinding PvP ranks specifically for this purpose: to secure good gear for the BWL launch. The developers are effectively striking out months of hard work spent farming honor and ranks, and then telling us to just sit tight and wait. It’s complete nonsense, it’s absurd—it’s nothing short of a mockery. There is no "middle ground" here, nor can there be. Admit your mistake, do what should have been done, and that’s that!

[Delaiwen]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

Thanks for reconsidering this, but can we perhaps meet in the middle ground since having to wait for another 2 months for epic pvp set is still very absurd.

We've grinded honor for so long and it just doesnt seem fair for those dedicated players.

My friend, there is no "middle ground" here. It’s perfectly obvious to everyone that this is a deliberate attempt to stretch out the content—something that was never stated anywhere beforehand. People are only finding out about this a couple of weeks before the release of BWL (Blackwing Lair). That’s just not right. Every single player knew that when BWL launched, PvP gear and weapons would become available—gear that people spent a massive amount of time—believe me—working toward. It’s always been this way, regardless of whether you’re playing on an official server or a private one: when the BWL phase hits, PvP gear is released, and the next tier of PvP ranks is unlocked. But the developers simply *don’t like* the fact that people invested so much time and effort preparing for the BWL launch to gear up for a better gameplay experience, so they’ve decided to just withhold that gear. It’s absolutely absurd! And what this admin is writing right now is just laughable—sitting there suggesting some kind of "middle ground." This is a major mistake on their part, and they simply refuse to admit it. Look, I wouldn’t have an issue if this had been laid out on a roadmap five months ago—but it wasn’t. They’re just presenting us with a *fait accompli*. A huge number of people have been grinding PvP ranks specifically for this purpose: to secure good gear for the BWL launch. The developers are effectively striking out months of hard work spent farming honor and ranks, and then telling us to just sit tight and wait. It’s complete nonsense, it’s absurd—it’s nothing short of a mockery. There is no "middle ground" here, nor can there be. Admit your mistake, do what should have been done, and that’s that!

What you said is ridiculous. Do you think the server should cater mainly to PvP players? Can you grind enough honor within a week to get T2 gear for your alts? Should PvE players have to spend months just to obtain a few pieces of T2 gear? I support the server admins’ decision. I hope those arrogant PvP players can reflect on themselves.

[Serdos777]

Thanks for reconsidering this, but can we perhaps meet in the middle ground since having to wait for another 2 months for epic pvp set is still very absurd.

We've grinded honor for so long and it just doesnt seem fair for those dedicated players.

My friend, there is no "middle ground" here. It’s perfectly obvious to everyone that this is a deliberate attempt to stretch out the content—something that was never stated anywhere beforehand. People are only finding out about this a couple of weeks before the release of BWL (Blackwing Lair). That’s just not right. Every single player knew that when BWL launched, PvP gear and weapons would become available—gear that people spent a massive amount of time—believe me—working toward. It’s always been this way, regardless of whether you’re playing on an official server or a private one: when the BWL phase hits, PvP gear is released, and the next tier of PvP ranks is unlocked. But the developers simply *don’t like* the fact that people invested so much time and effort preparing for the BWL launch to gear up for a better gameplay experience, so they’ve decided to just withhold that gear. It’s absolutely absurd! And what this admin is writing right now is just laughable—sitting there suggesting some kind of "middle ground." This is a major mistake on their part, and they simply refuse to admit it. Look, I wouldn’t have an issue if this had been laid out on a roadmap five months ago—but it wasn’t. They’re just presenting us with a *fait accompli*. A huge number of people have been grinding PvP ranks specifically for this purpose: to secure good gear for the BWL launch. The developers are effectively striking out months of hard work spent farming honor and ranks, and then telling us to just sit tight and wait. It’s complete nonsense, it’s absurd—it’s nothing short of a mockery. There is no "middle ground" here, nor can there be. Admit your mistake, do what should have been done, and that’s that!

What you said is ridiculous. Do you think the server should cater mainly to PvP players? Can you grind enough honor within a week to get T2 gear for your alts? Should PvE players have to spend months just to obtain a few pieces of T2 gear? I support the server admins’ decision. I hope those arrogant PvP players can reflect on themselves.

Good God, man, what are you even saying? You’d be better off not writing anything at all—don’t embarrass yourself. Just imagine how you’d look if you’d spent five months grinding battlegrounds, farming PvP ranks, and earning honor—all so that, when the new content finally drops, you could claim what’s rightfully yours—only to be told to just "chill out" for another two and a half months. I’d love to see the look on your face—and your reaction—when you, some PvE worm, waltz in, spend a mere two hours on a raid night, and—without putting in any real effort—walk away with the latest, top-tier gear. God, why am I even bothering to write this to someone who clearly can’t be bothered to use their own brain for a second!

[Snilary]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

I see your argument but shouldn't those have an edge who tackle multiple types of content in the game, like pvp/ranking/etc.?

There are some sweats who already have 140k honor accumulated (some of them still pvp for the joy of the game) but think of those who did not. BWL release should be a major milestone for everyone, there are many people who sleep on pvp gear because they do not research and do not know that they are missing out not pre-farming honor, and they would start pvping once the items are in the vendors seeing that the character power is available. Those who already have everything would keep pvping because the T3 honor costs are IIIINSANELY high (3 weeks of farming for a T3 weapon at this rate).

If you think the immediate power is too much, move the epic weapon unlocks to ES release instead, I'd personally be fine with that.

[Delaiwen]

My friend, there is no "middle ground" here. It’s perfectly obvious to everyone that this is a deliberate attempt to stretch out the content—something that was never stated anywhere beforehand. People are only finding out about this a couple of weeks before the release of BWL (Blackwing Lair). That’s just not right. Every single player knew that when BWL launched, PvP gear and weapons would become available—gear that people spent a massive amount of time—believe me—working toward. It’s always been this way, regardless of whether you’re playing on an official server or a private one: when the BWL phase hits, PvP gear is released, and the next tier of PvP ranks is unlocked. But the developers simply *don’t like* the fact that people invested so much time and effort preparing for the BWL launch to gear up for a better gameplay experience, so they’ve decided to just withhold that gear. It’s absolutely absurd! And what this admin is writing right now is just laughable—sitting there suggesting some kind of "middle ground." This is a major mistake on their part, and they simply refuse to admit it. Look, I wouldn’t have an issue if this had been laid out on a roadmap five months ago—but it wasn’t. They’re just presenting us with a *fait accompli*. A huge number of people have been grinding PvP ranks specifically for this purpose: to secure good gear for the BWL launch. The developers are effectively striking out months of hard work spent farming honor and ranks, and then telling us to just sit tight and wait. It’s complete nonsense, it’s absurd—it’s nothing short of a mockery. There is no "middle ground" here, nor can there be. Admit your mistake, do what should have been done, and that’s that!

What you said is ridiculous. Do you think the server should cater mainly to PvP players? Can you grind enough honor within a week to get T2 gear for your alts? Should PvE players have to spend months just to obtain a few pieces of T2 gear? I support the server admins’ decision. I hope those arrogant PvP players can reflect on themselves.

Good God, man, what are you even saying? You’d be better off not writing anything at all—don’t embarrass yourself. Just imagine how you’d look if you’d spent five months grinding battlegrounds, farming PvP ranks, and earning honor—all so that, when the new content finally drops, you could claim what’s rightfully yours—only to be told to just "chill out" for another two and a half months. I’d love to see the look on your face—and your reaction—when you, some PvE worm, waltz in, spend a mere two hours on a raid night, and—without putting in any real effort—walk away with the latest, top-tier gear. God, why am I even bothering to write this to someone who clearly can’t be bothered to use their own brain for a second!

So according to you, I can get whatever gear I want in PvE? Does the whole raid serve only you? Can you decide what drops from the boss? So are you so-called PvP players here for PvP gear, or for actual PvP?

[Delaiwen]

According to what these PvP players are saying, when we do PvE, bosses should drop whatever we want. But we’ve gone through dozens of Molten Core CDs without a single legendary item dropping. I’m demanding that the GM just give me a legendary weapon!

[Liberty]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

Some people have stockpiled mats for Thunderfury and will have it in week one, and deservedly so after grinding 100 Arcanite Bars. That kind of dedication should be rewarded. Meanwhile, people who stockpiled honor are being told that’s exactly the problem. It feels inconsistent to delay rewards for the people who have consistently grinded honor every week, kept world PvP alive, and helped keep the server active.

There is no way to accidentally grind 140k honor - you have to be doing 20-40 bgs per week, every week for months. Why should these people not be rewarded the same as the people who've grinded in other ways?

20k honor roughly per pvp piece, plus the original blue item - thats 120k honor + extra for weapons. Thats a big grind, probably a longer grind than most in the game.

Personally I'm not that bothered, i pvp after i have honor / rep cap cause i find it fun. But a lot of people do it for the gear and you're gonna end up making no incentive and killing bgs which is a negative for the server as a whole as bgs are a nice place to relax and plus they are repeatablee content.

Raids are on lockouts, so PvE players log off between resets. And people queueing keeps the queues short and battlegrounds alive which is a net positive for everyone, if you want to gear up your alt or get ranks for reducing mount cost etc. Gonna be a big pain for everyone if queues stop popping. If you end up with 4 v 4s in ab or wsg its awful.

[Knifewrench]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

Seeing the pvp server is about pvp, and we also lack crossfaction buffs (making pve harder) could you consider releasing the pvp items a few weeks after bwl launch(for yshaarj, or if wanted for all servers). This means it wont effect server firsts/progress + even with those items we are weaker then having xfaction buffs+ this would be a big sign to all pvpers playing or considering to play that you guys actively care and do stuff for yshaarj.

[Octto]

According to what these PvP players are saying, when we do PvE, bosses should drop whatever we want. But we’ve gone through dozens of Molten Core CDs without a single legendary item dropping. I’m demanding that the GM just give me a legendary weapon!

This is an MMORPG. The entire point is that you put time and effort into doing things in the game, farming resources, completing content, and chasing power. In return, you are rewarded for that investment. That is how progression works.

A player who has been raiding Molten Core for the past four or five months has a massive advantage over someone who dinged level 60 yesterday. When BWL opens, both players can enter the raid. Who is going to have the advantage? Obviously, the player who put in the work and acquired full BiS Tier 1 gear. Is that unfair to the guy who just hit level 60? Should we disable Tier 1 gear for two and a half months because some players have an advantage over others on day one? Of course not. That would be ridiculous.

So why is this suddenly a problem when it comes to PvP?

Honor is capped at 20,000 per week. Nobody accumulated 140k honor by accident. These players have spent weeks upon weeks grinding battlegrounds, investing their time into the game, and working toward a specific reward. This is not free gear being handed out like candy. It is gear they have already put in the work to earn.

Molten Core is not exactly the pinnacle of PvE difficulty, either. Yet nobody is arguing that its rewards should be withheld because some players have been farming it for months and would otherwise enter BWL with an advantage over less-geared players.

The same principle applies to consumables. A player who has spent months stockpiling flasks, elixirs, potions, and other raid consumables is going to have an advantage over someone who just dinged 60. Those resources translate directly into player power. Is anyone demanding that we prevent players from using their stockpiled consumables for the first two and a half months of BWL? Is anyone accusing the developers of catering to players who farm all day when those players show up to raids fully prepared? No. We accept that preparation and investment are part of the game.

So why should PvP players be treated differently?

If someone has spent six weeks grinding honor toward a set of gear, why should they be told to wait another two and a half months to receive their reward? What exactly is the justification for this distinction? The fact that some players prepared in advance and can purchase their gear immediately? That is the entire point of preparing in advance!

These items were designed by Turtle WoW with item levels comparable to BWL gear, and the established progression on Ambershire reinforced the expectation that they would arrive with BWL. They are progression gear for this stage of the game. By the time AQ40 and Eternal Sanctum arrive, the PvE gear progression will have moved forward, and the relative value of this PvP gear will diminish. Delaying it means withholding rewards during the very phase for which they were designed.

And let's address the argument that PvP players expect the server to cater to them.

Nobody is asking for special treatment. We are asking for the same basic principle that applies everywhere else in an MMORPG: you put in the work, you earn the reward, and when that reward is supposed to become available, you get to use it.

The PvE player who spent months raiding Molten Core gets to use his gear when BWL opens. The player who spent months farming crafting materials gets to use those materials when the next progression opportunity arrives. But the PvP player who spent weeks grinding honor is told that his preparation is somehow a problem, and that his reward must be withheld because he might be too well geared on day one.

How does that make any sense?

And this is not just about the players who have stockpiled enough honor to buy a full set immediately. The delay affects everyone. Even players who haven't accumulated enough honor yet are being denied the opportunity to start working toward and purchasing these upgrades during the BWL phase. The developers are effectively punishing the entire PvP community to address a concern about the readiness of a subset of players.

There is also this to consider. Battlegrounds are repeatable content. Raids have lockouts. People can finish their weekly PvE content and log off, but battlegrounds give players something meaningful to do throughout the week. Gear progression is one of the major incentives that keeps people queuing. If you take away that incentive for another two and a half months, don't be surprised if participation suffers. That hurts the server as a whole, not just the people chasing the gear.

The developers are entitled to manage progression, of course. But if they wanted to delay epic PvP gear until AQ40 or Eternal Sanctum, that should have been communicated clearly from the beginning, not announced shortly before BWL after players had already spent months preparing under a different expectation.

The problem isn't that "PvP players want an advantage". The entire game is built around earning advantages through effort. The problem is that the developers are treating the effort of PvP players as a reason to withhold their rewards, while treating preparation through PvE, crafting, and consumable farming as a perfectly normal part of progression.

That is the double standard people are objecting to. And moving the goalposts at the last minute, after players have invested months of their time, feels like a slap in the face.

Let people enjoy the rewards they worked for. That's what progression is supposed to be about.