Blackwing Lair Arrives November 1st

[Nandieb]

According to what these PvP players are saying, when we do PvE, bosses should drop whatever we want. But we’ve gone through dozens of Molten Core CDs without a single legendary item dropping. I’m demanding that the GM just give me a legendary weapon!

You are completely missing the point.
Firstly the PvP gear isn’t bis in PvE.
Secondly, grinding full epic PvP gear takes 6 weeks of capping 20k honor, which translates to roughly 20hr playtime per week. Most players don’t cap the 20k, multiple weeks in a row, only the very dedicated ones.
Compare that to the (let’s be generous) 3 hrs a week to clear bwl and farm the necessary consumes and the average 6-8 weeks it takes of that kind of dedication to get full T2. It kind of pales in comparison to the amount of dedication for the PvP, doesn’t it?
Comparing the mediocre PvP gear with legendary weapons is preposterous.
Overall the impact of PvP gear on PvE is quite small

[Zvyrhol]

It's still better than on AQ release. In my opinion, PvP gear should be released even earlier in December (4-6 weeks after BWL). So the PvErs have a bit of challenge in BWL at least for 1 month.

Those of you who demand PvP gear on day 1 of BWL release are ignoring the balancing issue completely. It's not ok when PvPers could have advantage over PvErs in PvE content. Especially with race on server first BWL clear.

By the way, when did Octo WoW promise that PvP gear should be released along BWL? As long as you don't have any proof of their promise, you shouldn't be entitled. The claim that people invested their time in BGs so they can get their gear on BWL release is absurd and further reinforces the stereotype of braindead PvP playerbase.

Also, I think this problem is insignificant from future perspective. You will get access to whole PvP gear eventually, just be patient. Nobody will care about it in 1 year.


The only thing Octo WoW could handle better was to apply different approaches regarding this issue on different servers. I can imagine nothing wrong would happen if this PvP gear was released on day 1 of BWL on Yshaarj, it's PvP server after all. N'Zoth should be PvE focused so the gear could be delayed there. The problem is Octo WoW applies PvE-server policy even to PvP server.

[Liberty]

pvp gear is not bis in pve so where is the advantage? there is no hit on the pvp gear, mc / ony / world boss loot beat the pvp gear by a mile

also its not that they stated it will, its by convention of how it always has previously been released with bwl

[Nnz]

It's not like I would use the new PvP-gear in PvE encounters except for one piece - firstly - its doesn't have ANY hit rating, secondly crit chance is not the goal that my class and specc wants.

[Endor2]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

To be honest, I don’t see the point of a decision like this.
I don’t play PvP myself, but if I had been farming Honor points in advance specifically to get "Partisan" gear, only to find out at the last minute that it wouldn’t be available, I’d be—to put it mildly—shocked.
I also don’t understand the complaints from certain "experts" who support delaying the release of PvP gear.
The "stupid PvP players" argument is just incredibly cringeworthy; the people saying it probably don’t even grasp what they’re writing. What’s the logic behind removing PvP gear—which is weaker than Tier 2 and was specifically designed for the launch of Blackwing Lair (BWL)—anyway? For instance, the Rogue’s Tier 0.5 set is only replaced by Tier 3, yet for some reason, it’s obtainable long before the Naxxramas phase. And yet, the Rogue’s Tier 0.5 set exists, and nobody seems to care (
This isn’t a call for a nerf; it’s just an example).
Try going to BG in game—not the general forum—and posting about the decision to scrap the introduction of PvP gear alongside the release of BWL. Most people aren’t even aware of it yet. Just imagine what’s going to happen when they find out on November 1st.
I don’t want to stir up a "holy war," but I personally care about the PvP community, which makes up a significant part of Octowow.
We’ve already suffered enough from DDoS attacks and lost some of our comrades-in-arms; we don’t want any more casualties.

[Vorg]

I don't understand what is wrong with a few neckberds who were grinding bgs for months will have a chance to buy some gear ??? Its 0.01% of server pop. The gear is barely better than blue pvp gear jesus. You can gatekeep weapons I dont care, BWL weapons are better anyway.

Those who think they can grind pvp epic gear in a couple of weekends are delusional. On average its 1k honor per hour (until you are capped) during specific BG days. Somewhere in the thread it was mentioned you need 140k to buy full set. Thats 7-8 weeks of heavy grinding. You also need to watch after AV/AB days to max out honor per hour. Thats 2-3 days per week of 6-7 hours per day. For 8 weeks straight. Dont forget about decay (20% of current RP) either. Good luck with that. Right now to go from R11 to R12 its 50 BGs (each win gives ~1% progress, loss gives 0.5%) + you get some honor and progress from marks and HKs. And dont forget about honor cap! Most people usually stop at cap. You can still progress rank after cap though but you still will need HONOR to buy gear.

The pvp scene on octo is already dying out, you get to play with a group of ~50 same people every single day! It gets ridiculous after a few hours you stop getting honor for kills because you keep facing the same bulk of 50 dudes.

Blocking PvP gear progression at the time its still relevant is just last nail to the coffin. Especially since WOWF is around the corner. You have opportunity right now to revive BGs and incentivize new people to start queuing. Revert the pvp xp you did last time. Maybe tone it down just a little bit but why kill it entirely ??

[Darhk]

Hey everyone,

We’ve read your feedback on the Epic PvP Gear being tied to AQ40, and we get where you’re coming from.

The reason we don’t want to release it alongside BWL is the same one some of you have raised:
players would be walking around in full PvP gear on Day 1 that’s equal to T2 from BWL.
(Yes we can see your honor, and some of you have a lot and would be instantly fully kitted)

We did some research and looked into the numbers, and gearing up a full T2 set takes about 6-8 weeks on average in WoW Classic. And with the following decision we believe its the perfect middle ground.

Because of that, we’ve decided to move the Epic PvP Gear to Eternal Sanctum release in January, which lands 2 and a half months after the BWL release.

One thing to keep in mind: this will leave a big gap between Rank 13 and Rank 14.

Thanks for the feedback, and keep it coming.

What is Eternal Sanctum? We playing Dark Souls II?

[Nandieb]

Those of you who demand PvP gear on day 1 of BWL release are ignoring the balancing issue completely. It's not ok when PvPers could have advantage over PvErs in PvE content. Especially with race on server first BWL clear.

By the way, when did Octo WoW promise that PvP gear should be released along BWL? As long as you don't have any proof of their promise, you shouldn't be entitled. The claim that people invested their time in BGs so they can get their gear on BWL release is absurd and further reinforces the stereotype of braindead PvP playerbase.

Also, I think this problem is insignificant from future perspective. You will get access to whole PvP gear eventually, just be patient. Nobody will care about it in 1 year.

Your comment is braindead
The advantage of the current iteration of PvP gear in BWL progression is miniscule to non-existent. It’s not rank 13/14 gear!

You saying the thought of people grinding this gear in advance is absurd shows how clueless you are! PvP gear on bwl release is the typical vanilla progression, and it has been handled the same on turtle wow before. That’s enough reason to assume it’s going to happen on octo unless stated otherwise.
Hey *surprise* no T2 gear in BWL, that will come in AQ. Imagine that?

To think this is insignificant LOL
Now you are creating the opposite effect that you have months of people in PvE gear dominating battlegrounds because the blue PvP gear can’t hold a candle to BWL gear. Awesome, thanks very much. Congrats to all the pvpers that are not in raiding guilds.

[Zvyrhol]

Now I realized what could be the reason of people's confusion.

I think the majority of players who cry here have no idea that Turtle WoW introduced 3 tiers of PvP sets instead of blue and epic ones from Vanilla. They instead think Octo doesn't want to give them classic epic set!

Turtle's T2 PvP gear isn't the same epic PvP gear as in Vanilla. It's much stronger. I wouldn't be surprised if it has similar item level as gear from AQ40, thus I suppose this is why Octo wanted to release it then at first. Unfortunately, these items aren't in database anywhere so I can't prove you all wrong. And by the way T3 PvP set is like Naxx/Kara40 level.

also its not that they stated it will, its by convention of how it always has previously been released with bwl

Yeah, it was a case in all Vanilla servers. My point is: Turtle WoW changed the sets and with how strong this epic PvP gear is compared to the one from Vanilla, they can't release it on day 1 without harming PvE audience. It's not normal on day 1 of BWL when raid composed of 40 people who own whole T2 PvP gear clears content faster than 40 people who have BiS gear from MC/ZG/Ony. Spoiler alert: not every single spec out of 27 needs that much hit from gear.

Of your 3 paragraphs, 2 are off-topic due to your reading comprehension problem and 1 reflects your lack of knowledge on the topic - as I described above Vanilla epic PvP gear doesn't equal Turtle WoW T2 PvP gear.
Please, if your goal is to shitpost, go to Discord or somewhere else instead of wasting people time here.

[Serdos777]

Now I realized what could be the reason of people's confusion.

I think the majority of players who cry here have no idea that Turtle WoW introduced 3 tiers of PvP sets instead of blue and epic ones from Vanilla. They instead think Octo doesn't want to give them classic epic set!

Turtle's T2 PvP gear isn't the same epic PvP gear as in Vanilla. It's much stronger. I wouldn't be surprised if it has similar item level as gear from AQ40, thus I suppose this is why Octo wanted to release it then at first. Unfortunately, these items aren't in database anywhere so I can't prove you all wrong. And by the way T3 PvP set is like Naxx/Kara40 level.

also its not that they stated it will, its by convention of how it always has previously been released with bwl

Yeah, it was a case in all Vanilla servers. My point is: Turtle WoW changed the sets and with how strong this epic PvP gear is compared to the one from Vanilla, they can't release it on day 1 without harming PvE audience. It's not normal on day 1 of BWL when raid composed of 40 people who own whole T2 PvP gear clears content faster than 40 people who have BiS gear from MC/ZG/Ony. Spoiler alert: not every single spec out of 27 needs that much hit from gear.

Of your 3 paragraphs, 2 are off-topic due to your reading comprehension problem and 1 reflects your lack of knowledge on the topic - as I described above Vanilla epic PvP gear doesn't equal Turtle WoW T2 PvP gear.
Please, if your goal is to shitpost, go to Discord or somewhere else instead of wasting people time here.

Look, buddy, it seems you don’t know anything yourself about the PvP sets that Turtle [WoW] has introduced. The first set—the one currently in the game—has already been updated to match the version found on Turtle in patch 1.18.1. The next set, which arrives alongside BWL [Blackwing Lair], is what they call the "Partisan's" set; if you know how to use a database, you can easily look it up and see what it’s all about. Then there’s the third set, which comes with the Naxxramas and Karazhan 40 content—that’s the "Veteran" set. The people here aren't "morons" crying about things, as you put it; they’re people who know exactly what they want to get. Before you go spouting this nonsense in yet another post, try to at least be a little bit informed about what you’re writing.