OctoWow - Forums

Hey everyone,

I’ve been playing Octo WoW (formerly Turtle) for quite a while now, and I absolutely love the game.

I’ve been thinking for a while about making a post with a few small “improvement suggestions” of mine — or, to put it another way, just a little bit of complaining. ^^

Since quite a few things have already been changed in the talent trees compared to Classic WoW, I was wondering if there might also be an opportunity to introduce some small **“feel good” changes** for certain caster classes.

In particular, I’m thinking about the casters that can currently only get **3% Spell Hit from talents** — Moonkin, Elemental and Destro.

Would it be possible to allow these classes to get **6% Spell Hit from talents** as well, similar to the other caster classes?

As a Moonkin lover myself, I personally find it quite annoying that I basically have to look for Hit on almost every piece of gear.

I know that changes like this can potentially have an impact on class balance. I’m not looking to make Moonkin, Elemental or Destro significantly stronger — it would simply make gearing a little more comfortable and give us some more flexibility when choosing items.

So, to me, this would be more of a small **quality-of-life / feel-good change** rather than a major balance adjustment.

I also have another question:

**Would it be technically possible to add a specific ZG shoulder enchant for each spec?**

I think it would be really nice if the different caster specs had their own enchantment options that better fit their respective playstyles.

What do you guys think?

Maybe there are other players who would also appreciate some small changes like these.

And of course, I’d also be interested to know whether something like this would even be technically possible.

Thanks for reading, and keep having fun! ^^

Elemental shaman lacks totem of wrath (as tbc it adds 3% spell hit and spell crit). And also wrath of air (adds spell damage). Basically only WF matters, sadly.

To preserve "balance" i would like to see a variation of Air totem adding 3% of spell hit.

And obiously 3% hit from talents is pretty unfair compared to other casters. Capstone talents should adds some more of it.

The first thing that comes to my mind whenever players ask for more spellhit is: be careful what you wish for.

Ultimately, Spellhit, Spellcrit and Spelldamage are all primarily used as parameters that influence your DPS. If I'm a warlock shooting 2k average Shadowbolts at 100% accuracy, or 4k average Shadowbolts at 50% accuracy, the expected DPS outcome is the same over time.

BUT, contrary to melee specs — whose hit chance doesn't change much between attacking level 62 and level 63 targets, leaving them to deal with glancing blows as a mechanic instead — a caster's miss chance jumps by 11% between attacking a level 63 boss (17% miss chance) and a level 62 henchman (6% miss chance).

So any hit chance above 6% is a wasted stat when attacking targets below level 63. Yet, IF the game is properly balanced, the classes with fewer hit talents are compensated with more crit chance, haste, or other beneficial talents.

Additionally, People only talk about missing a talent that would benefit them. Why doesn't Frost Mage get the same 1-second cast-time reduction Elemental gets? Why doesn't Destro Warlock get the combined 1.2-second cast-time reduction Moonkin can get on Starfire with a Nature's Grace proc? Why does haste arbitrarily apply in a different, stronger form to Affliction's DoTs and Arcane mages missiles?

WoW is an RPG, and what gear to wear is part of the gameplay decisions you make. By streamlining it so everyone faces the same challenges, you not only make more classes want the exact same item loadout — rather than different classes naturally branching out — but you also bring the classes closer to being interchangeable. And while making every class a mechanical clone of one another, just with different set dressing, would undoubtedly make game balance easier, you aren't exactly doing the game a service by doing so. This exact design process is part of the reason every class in retail feels more or less the same within its mold of Tank, Melee DPS, Caster DPS, or Healer.

Some classes do have a leg up over others, and having played Elemental Shaman myself in Kara40, I am only too familiar with performing 30% worse than other DPS in the raid for equal effort. But those are much wider-reaching issues than what +3% spellhit would fix.

So, TL;DR: I'd prefer each talent tree to have unique upsides and downsides relative to one another, instead of just the same mechanics wrapped up in a different flavor.

And as for the ZG shoulder enchant, i will say the same thing i always say when the same topic comes up. More enchant options are always apprechiated, but for the love of god, ZG idols are already an exercise in frustration, there can be other avenues for shoulder enchants.

Thanks for your reply in the first place.

I understand all of your points. It’s definitely a fine line between giving too much and too little, and of course you always have to consider not overtuning certain classes.

Especially when it comes to Moonkin and Elemental Shaman (I play both), I can say that compared to other casters, you don’t really have much competition unless everything happens to crit. I don’t think the classes mentioned would become too strong because of this change. It’s just a small adjustment and more of a quality-of-life change.

Instead of having Hit on basically every item, you could choose Crit or Spell Power instead, which would simply feel much better to play.

My suggestion for Balance and Elemental would be to split the Hit talents in the talent tree into Melee Hit and Spell Hit. If they were separated, the Spell Hit could be adjusted to 6%.

Of course, I’m aware that every class has its own talent tree with its own strengths and weaknesses. Personally, it just gets frustrating that as a Balance Druid, you basically HAVE to stack Hit on all your gear if you want to avoid Spell Resists.

If I look at Arcane Mages, for example, they talent 10% Hit, get another 2% Hit from the ZG head and leg enchants, and an additional 1% Hit from the raid-wide Druid buff through ES. (The same applies to many other caster specs.)

For Moonkin and Elemental, nothing really changes apart from the additional 1% Hit from the ES buff.

Regarding the ZG head and leg enchants, my intention was simply to give every spec the opportunity to get an enchant that is actually useful for them.

At the moment you have more gearing options.

You DON'T have to have spellhit cap. You choose to. (There are gearsetups below spellhit cap that outperform hitcapped options on bossdps. Famously destruction Warlock in classic doesn't want to run hitcap since he deals more average DPS by risking the occasional miss.)
A class that has no strong spellhit talent can choose to stat spellhit or choose not to. A class that has strong spellhit talent must use other stats than hit on gear. Since its incredibly easy for them to overstat hitchance.

Sure, at the moment with access to t1 at best, most casters (and heck many melees) struggle to reach hitcap using decent items. But hitchance will only be easier to obtain as gear increases. While the easy raids now can be mastered without spellhit cap just fine.

Elemental Shaman for instance has 9% hitchance on T3 pieces + Setbonus. With The 1% Spellhit from Emerald Blessing and 3% from talents, you are missing only 3% hitchance from jewelry or offset pieces/ weapon/offhand slot to reach cap. I remember having to slot out of T3 to not overcap on hit.

The classes are already scheduled to be itemized for that problem.