XP, Dungeon and Mob Balance
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2026 4:51 pm
I wanna adress some stuff the latest turtle patch was doing that in my opinion is not healthy for the game and i talked with more than 20 people about this while leveling and all feel close the same to that discussion.
1. The XP Nerf on Mobs makes no sense. It just makes leveling more annoying than it was. There is zero plus point to make -40% XP on Mobs. Even leveling in Vanilla is faster than this now and not everyone can play 24/7. Pre-Turtle levelspeed was very nice and a big plus for a lot of people compared to Vanilla due perma rest existing and having more quests viable.
2. While adding up difficulty is overall not a bad idea since builds got stronger, but its done badly. For example some normal mobs at level 30 already hitting 200-250 crits into my priest and my Prot Warrior with full dungeon gear gets nearly bashed by 2 Defias Melee Rogues that not use magical attacks in 19 Seconds. That's not difficulty that is just annoying. So on one hand u need 40% more time to level due XP Nerf and on the other hand now u need way more Reg, Bandage or eat/drink time than before. Overall before patch @ arround 30 i was on 50-60 k xp/h and now it went to 30k xp/h doing the same stuff. The problem is not that i can't do the content - The problem is it nearly takes double time now - And some classes suffer way more with that than others.
Same with Dungeons. Turtle was known for having an awesome Levelexpierience with added Dungeons. It is an flat added difficulty over ALL Levels what is complete stupid. Because like WHC or Gnomen some mobs hitting extreme hard while on that level NO character having full Talent tree to counter that. I can tell due i play Holy Priest and Prot Warrior that the Difficulty now is fine if u have PERFECT setup. But how often that happen on Random inviting People while leveling? Dungeons often got a chore taken tons of time and giving real LOW XP. Alot of people don't wanna do them anymore or more than once while there is really cool items in Turtledungeons that making leveling more fun overall.
And yes some hard bosses are cool. But trash that making healer OOM close to every group if the tank is not perfectly setup or the dps don't have good CC is the wrong place for lvl 20-40. This is an great idea for lvl 54+ where people should already know how their class functioning and have deep talent trees and kinda stop to
use their "questing specc"
Also right now the trash is harder than bosses is most dungeons. WHC bosses are a real joke compared to the trash.
This buffing needs a curve that gets bigger the higher the level. Gnomen shouldn't need alrdy a propper fully geared tank to get threw with an beginner healer. I had only one failpull as tank in there due a hunter pet and i needed to throw Last Stance + Shield Wall to avoid a wipe on fucking trash - and it was just one extra group before endboss - and i kited away ALL mines, not one was hitting, and still i needed to do this. So now do that shit with a tank like fury warrior with shield that doesn't know this Dungeon, guess that will be a lot of fun^^
Not all people play the game for 25 years and play their character perfectly and leveling phase should give those people a chance to learn the game without needing 2 hours for a normal dungeon giving 30% xp of level rested.
Also turtle was known for makin "all speccs viable" - Due the buffing it's absolutley not. I went yesterday into WC with my rogue with an level 20 Shaman tank and he got clapped like hell. Shaman was wearing propper shield and normal green Leveling gear. He wasn't able to tank some bosses at all. Last boss before event got him from 100% to 10% in 2 fuckin hits. What's the fun about that?
And u can clearly see before patch it was easier to find Dungeon groups with 500 players online than it is now with 2k people online in that Levelrange. I'd say that alrdy tells a lot.
And when we reach the point where more ppl 60 and less people are Leveling nobody will do them due u cant just take subuptimal Classes for specific rolls if ur not stupidly overleveled so the dungeon gives even less xp.
In WHC i saw a heal specced shaman with mediocre gear but all spellstuff and he wasn't able to heal the Dungeon. That's stupid^^ His heals were like 35% lower than my priest ones on same level taking the same mana. Usual that would be ok because the shaman provides Totems and support instead. But with that dmg income this isn't a real thing.
Heal paladin looked well when i tanked - But still got oom at some points pretty fast while i play Prot specc. And before if u play protspecc u kinda had a freerun and a fuckin feral without healgear was able to heal that. The difference is just a bit too extreme. I really like the added difficulty at some points, especially bosses. But the trash is just a chore taking up more time than it should at some situations^^
I completly agree to buff close to endgame stuff because u get ur 31 Talents and big buffs. But on lowlevel it is not healthy for the game. Stuff requires to be stunned and cc to be effective. A level 20 Rogue having only kick and nothing to lower the damage due stuns etc. for example. So in the end Protpaladin, Protwarrior and Bear only viable tanks if the healer isn't a beast or at least 2 dps are beast tier. Priest heal is the only class so far that can heal suboptimal/beginner groups on lowlevel at some cases in my opinion. Also since i play WoW i never had so much downtime with drinking as a healer like this now. U often can't even downrank or use 1-3 ticks of outfightregen what's the usual tactic in classic to avoid drinking because most Tanks get so fuckin clapped that sometimes u really need to SPAM max rank heal on trash. With 4 whc set pieces, close to full rare Dungeon gear as priest i should laugh at the Dungeons and not push like stupid to get threw it. The gear doesn't feel like something achieved anymore to get very strong, it more feels needed to play the game at least normal and i can't counter a stupid tank with it anymore.
Also i caught myself on my Warrior pref. tanking Dungeons beeing overleveld what even gives less XP But u can get crittet down alrdy by 4 Mobs pretty easy now. And i never did that before beside HC since i can play my class.
Also some Dungeons feel normal, other complete insane.
CG was complete lowdmg and easy compared to WHC while its an higher Dungeon. Overall this just adds nothing to the game at all. EDIT: tryed CG again it my remembering was pre patch. I get pernament crittet by mobs 3-5 lvl under my level there while having +30 def and crits are arround 280-370 into 2.9k Armor... And we talkin about a level stage where u can't get stuff like cath shield or much good mail armor and i'ts pre plate. That's bit off the place to be real. also when i get to avarage level elite i now miss most attacks what makes tanking even worse, whyever that is now... (every 2nd shieldslam kinda went into not hitting and without healer with windfury totem i guess i would had stuggled there. its like hitting red mobs for real) That doesn't count for paladin spells because yeh ... paladin is blessed xD
That difficulty would be more okay probably if having Dual-Specc wouldn't be an expansive thing or the device + 1st extra specc would cost next to nothing and 2nd is more expansive. Then u could counter that shit easier with proper class roles.
And before typical comments like "just get better" or something comes please read exactly. The problem is not that i can't do it. It is just annoying and unfunny in suboptimal groups. Leveling shouldn't be about building well matching groups. It should work fine with what u get - or even effective with some effort. I'm not talkin about that i wanna have retail difficulty and just pull whole rooms with no issues. I'm more asking for the middle ground of pre 1.18 and now.
EDIT: Also removing XP-Nerf and Dungeons would solve the boost "problem" much better than anything else. People only want to have boost if the leveling feels like a chore or feels undoable with like 4 hours playtime per day. Like vanilla/blizz classic without having perma rested and extra quests had the same issue.
Another point i want to ask. For me it feels like Mobs are doing more Dodge,Parry now than before is that possible?
Even with shield+1h on average level i have around 30% of YELLOW hits landing dodge,parry,miss. Weapskill max of course. (27-34% to be exact if i look into dpsmeter data) - This thing is hard to tell because it differs hard. Like troggs now feel to have more dodge than usally. (80% of this 30% have been dodges, but also trogg mages)
1. The XP Nerf on Mobs makes no sense. It just makes leveling more annoying than it was. There is zero plus point to make -40% XP on Mobs. Even leveling in Vanilla is faster than this now and not everyone can play 24/7. Pre-Turtle levelspeed was very nice and a big plus for a lot of people compared to Vanilla due perma rest existing and having more quests viable.
2. While adding up difficulty is overall not a bad idea since builds got stronger, but its done badly. For example some normal mobs at level 30 already hitting 200-250 crits into my priest and my Prot Warrior with full dungeon gear gets nearly bashed by 2 Defias Melee Rogues that not use magical attacks in 19 Seconds. That's not difficulty that is just annoying. So on one hand u need 40% more time to level due XP Nerf and on the other hand now u need way more Reg, Bandage or eat/drink time than before. Overall before patch @ arround 30 i was on 50-60 k xp/h and now it went to 30k xp/h doing the same stuff. The problem is not that i can't do the content - The problem is it nearly takes double time now - And some classes suffer way more with that than others.
Same with Dungeons. Turtle was known for having an awesome Levelexpierience with added Dungeons. It is an flat added difficulty over ALL Levels what is complete stupid. Because like WHC or Gnomen some mobs hitting extreme hard while on that level NO character having full Talent tree to counter that. I can tell due i play Holy Priest and Prot Warrior that the Difficulty now is fine if u have PERFECT setup. But how often that happen on Random inviting People while leveling? Dungeons often got a chore taken tons of time and giving real LOW XP. Alot of people don't wanna do them anymore or more than once while there is really cool items in Turtledungeons that making leveling more fun overall.
And yes some hard bosses are cool. But trash that making healer OOM close to every group if the tank is not perfectly setup or the dps don't have good CC is the wrong place for lvl 20-40. This is an great idea for lvl 54+ where people should already know how their class functioning and have deep talent trees and kinda stop to
use their "questing specc"
Also right now the trash is harder than bosses is most dungeons. WHC bosses are a real joke compared to the trash.
This buffing needs a curve that gets bigger the higher the level. Gnomen shouldn't need alrdy a propper fully geared tank to get threw with an beginner healer. I had only one failpull as tank in there due a hunter pet and i needed to throw Last Stance + Shield Wall to avoid a wipe on fucking trash - and it was just one extra group before endboss - and i kited away ALL mines, not one was hitting, and still i needed to do this. So now do that shit with a tank like fury warrior with shield that doesn't know this Dungeon, guess that will be a lot of fun^^
Not all people play the game for 25 years and play their character perfectly and leveling phase should give those people a chance to learn the game without needing 2 hours for a normal dungeon giving 30% xp of level rested.
Also turtle was known for makin "all speccs viable" - Due the buffing it's absolutley not. I went yesterday into WC with my rogue with an level 20 Shaman tank and he got clapped like hell. Shaman was wearing propper shield and normal green Leveling gear. He wasn't able to tank some bosses at all. Last boss before event got him from 100% to 10% in 2 fuckin hits. What's the fun about that?
And u can clearly see before patch it was easier to find Dungeon groups with 500 players online than it is now with 2k people online in that Levelrange. I'd say that alrdy tells a lot.
And when we reach the point where more ppl 60 and less people are Leveling nobody will do them due u cant just take subuptimal Classes for specific rolls if ur not stupidly overleveled so the dungeon gives even less xp.
In WHC i saw a heal specced shaman with mediocre gear but all spellstuff and he wasn't able to heal the Dungeon. That's stupid^^ His heals were like 35% lower than my priest ones on same level taking the same mana. Usual that would be ok because the shaman provides Totems and support instead. But with that dmg income this isn't a real thing.
Heal paladin looked well when i tanked - But still got oom at some points pretty fast while i play Prot specc. And before if u play protspecc u kinda had a freerun and a fuckin feral without healgear was able to heal that. The difference is just a bit too extreme. I really like the added difficulty at some points, especially bosses. But the trash is just a chore taking up more time than it should at some situations^^
I completly agree to buff close to endgame stuff because u get ur 31 Talents and big buffs. But on lowlevel it is not healthy for the game. Stuff requires to be stunned and cc to be effective. A level 20 Rogue having only kick and nothing to lower the damage due stuns etc. for example. So in the end Protpaladin, Protwarrior and Bear only viable tanks if the healer isn't a beast or at least 2 dps are beast tier. Priest heal is the only class so far that can heal suboptimal/beginner groups on lowlevel at some cases in my opinion. Also since i play WoW i never had so much downtime with drinking as a healer like this now. U often can't even downrank or use 1-3 ticks of outfightregen what's the usual tactic in classic to avoid drinking because most Tanks get so fuckin clapped that sometimes u really need to SPAM max rank heal on trash. With 4 whc set pieces, close to full rare Dungeon gear as priest i should laugh at the Dungeons and not push like stupid to get threw it. The gear doesn't feel like something achieved anymore to get very strong, it more feels needed to play the game at least normal and i can't counter a stupid tank with it anymore.
Also i caught myself on my Warrior pref. tanking Dungeons beeing overleveld what even gives less XP But u can get crittet down alrdy by 4 Mobs pretty easy now. And i never did that before beside HC since i can play my class.
Also some Dungeons feel normal, other complete insane.
CG was complete lowdmg and easy compared to WHC while its an higher Dungeon. Overall this just adds nothing to the game at all. EDIT: tryed CG again it my remembering was pre patch. I get pernament crittet by mobs 3-5 lvl under my level there while having +30 def and crits are arround 280-370 into 2.9k Armor... And we talkin about a level stage where u can't get stuff like cath shield or much good mail armor and i'ts pre plate. That's bit off the place to be real. also when i get to avarage level elite i now miss most attacks what makes tanking even worse, whyever that is now... (every 2nd shieldslam kinda went into not hitting and without healer with windfury totem i guess i would had stuggled there. its like hitting red mobs for real) That doesn't count for paladin spells because yeh ... paladin is blessed xD
That difficulty would be more okay probably if having Dual-Specc wouldn't be an expansive thing or the device + 1st extra specc would cost next to nothing and 2nd is more expansive. Then u could counter that shit easier with proper class roles.
And before typical comments like "just get better" or something comes please read exactly. The problem is not that i can't do it. It is just annoying and unfunny in suboptimal groups. Leveling shouldn't be about building well matching groups. It should work fine with what u get - or even effective with some effort. I'm not talkin about that i wanna have retail difficulty and just pull whole rooms with no issues. I'm more asking for the middle ground of pre 1.18 and now.
EDIT: Also removing XP-Nerf and Dungeons would solve the boost "problem" much better than anything else. People only want to have boost if the leveling feels like a chore or feels undoable with like 4 hours playtime per day. Like vanilla/blizz classic without having perma rested and extra quests had the same issue.
Another point i want to ask. For me it feels like Mobs are doing more Dodge,Parry now than before is that possible?
Even with shield+1h on average level i have around 30% of YELLOW hits landing dodge,parry,miss. Weapskill max of course. (27-34% to be exact if i look into dpsmeter data) - This thing is hard to tell because it differs hard. Like troggs now feel to have more dodge than usally. (80% of this 30% have been dodges, but also trogg mages)