Ret Paladin Viability

[Choromatsusan]

I never got a chance to play Paladin and I was curious how well the Ret Paladins play after the class changes? Would YOU have them in your group?

[Reiker]

My perspective as someone who played Ret on Nordanaar:

"Default" Ret is... okay. It doesn't compete that well against other DPS classes and in my experience it was hard to find dungeon groups while leveling.

When I joined a raid guild it took a lot of effort just to provide mediocre middle-of-the-pack DPS. By effort I mean there's a lot of consumes we benefit from + I needed to grind out some specific pieces of gear like Soulforge (at least the 4 piece), Wrath of Cenarius, etc.

However once I got all my SP gear and a good weapon (UTB) I was consistently top 5 DPS and on certain fights I could hit top DPS.

The new Tempered Runeblade adds another grind but at least that gives a good weapon option beyond Shadowstrike before BWL.

So my conclusion is that Ret can be a very good raid DPS, but it takes some work & continual gold farming. I never really liked how the class performed in groups so I always swapped to Prot to tank dungeons at 60. Another nice thing about Ret is there's a lot of gear crossover with Prot so it can be a good class if you like playing multiple roles.

On Octowow I just leveled as Prot from the beginning so I could tank dungeons while leveling. I went down the Holy tree for Holy Shock after I got Holy Shield so I could AoE lashers from 53-60 and that felt better to me than leveling as Ret. I won't actually spec Ret until after I farm a decent amount of gear and start raiding.

That's not to say it's bad to level as Ret, especially if you like to solo quest and don't care that much about dungeons. Pursuit of Justice is a pretty nice benefit.

[Mrsneed]

Ret is good but gear reliant, perhaps more so than other classes. At this stage in the game though, I don't think people are too concerned about having specific classes in their groups so I'd say go nuts.

[Choromatsusan]

My perspective as someone who played Ret on Nordanaar:

"Default" Ret is... okay. It doesn't compete that well against other DPS classes and in my experience it was hard to find dungeon groups while leveling.

When I joined a raid guild it took a lot of effort just to provide mediocre middle-of-the-pack DPS. By effort I mean there's a lot of consumes we benefit from + I needed to grind out some specific pieces of gear like Soulforge (at least the 4 piece), Wrath of Cenarius, etc.

However once I got all my SP gear and a good weapon (UTB) I was consistently top 5 DPS and on certain fights I could hit top DPS.

The new Tempered Runeblade adds another grind but at least that gives a good weapon option beyond Shadowstrike before BWL.

So my conclusion is that Ret can be a very good raid DPS, but it takes some work & continual gold farming. I never really liked how the class performed in groups so I always swapped to Prot to tank dungeons at 60. Another nice thing about Ret is there's a lot of gear crossover with Prot so it can be a good class if you like playing multiple roles.

On Octowow I just leveled as Prot from the beginning so I could tank dungeons while leveling. I went down the Holy tree for Holy Shock after I got Holy Shield so I could AoE lashers from 53-60 and that felt better to me than leveling as Ret. I won't actually spec Ret until after I farm a decent amount of gear and start raiding.

That's not to say it's bad to level as Ret, especially if you like to solo quest and don't care that much about dungeons. Pursuit of Justice is a pretty nice benefit.

Thank you this was very informative, I actually was wondering what the experience was like since its technically one of the things most unlike traditional classic WoW.

[Denin]

I was one of the few AP ret palas on Turtle.

It always preformed pretty well imo but saw a lot of changes through Turtles lifespan.

In the recent patches Spellret pulled ahead but AP was buffed quite a bit in the last patch so it's likely close to equal now.

I can't comment much on k40 but had Naxx on farm for years and in the content up to and including that point both ret paladin version does really well.

They are definitely not weak in the current tier either, more than just viable. Heck all paladin specs are great, Turtle loved paladins.

[Xallog2]

One thing worth noting if you plan on levelling a paladin. It may be hard to get into raids at 60 because the pala population is already the highest at 60, guilds are starting to stop recruiting / limit how many palas they can take per raid.

[Avixioroni]

My perspective as someone who played Ret on Nordanaar:

"Default" Ret is... okay. It doesn't compete that well against other DPS classes and in my experience it was hard to find dungeon groups while leveling.

When I joined a raid guild it took a lot of effort just to provide mediocre middle-of-the-pack DPS. By effort I mean there's a lot of consumes we benefit from + I needed to grind out some specific pieces of gear like Soulforge (at least the 4 piece), Wrath of Cenarius, etc.

However once I got all my SP gear and a good weapon (UTB) I was consistently top 5 DPS and on certain fights I could hit top DPS.

The new Tempered Runeblade adds another grind but at least that gives a good weapon option beyond Shadowstrike before BWL.

So my conclusion is that Ret can be a very good raid DPS, but it takes some work & continual gold farming. I never really liked how the class performed in groups so I always swapped to Prot to tank dungeons at 60. Another nice thing about Ret is there's a lot of gear crossover with Prot so it can be a good class if you like playing multiple roles.

On Octowow I just leveled as Prot from the beginning so I could tank dungeons while leveling. I went down the Holy tree for Holy Shock after I got Holy Shield so I could AoE lashers from 53-60 and that felt better to me than leveling as Ret. I won't actually spec Ret until after I farm a decent amount of gear and start raiding.

That's not to say it's bad to level as Ret, especially if you like to solo quest and don't care that much about dungeons. Pursuit of Justice is a pretty nice benefit.

Hi, just started playing paladin and I was wondering what's the easier way to level paladin? Can you recommend which talents I should pick, what rotation I should use when leveling? (Currently at level 16)

[Reiker]

Hi, just started playing paladin and I was wondering what's the easier way to level paladin? Can you recommend which talents I should pick, what rotation I should use when leveling? (Currently at level 16)

Uh, it depends. "Easiest" is probably just going down Ret tree and questing.

10-14: Benediction 5/5
15-16: Improved Judgement 2/2
17-19: Deflection 3/5
20-21: Pursuit of Justice 2/2

Pursuit of Justice is really nice while leveling so that's the first thing you want. I like to get Spiritual Focus next to be able to heal reliably in combat w/ Concentration Aura.

22-26: Divine Strength 5/5
27-28: Spiritual Focus 2/2

Further into Ret:

29-31: Conviction 3/5
32-34: Two-Handed Weapon Specialization 3/3
35-36: Conviction 5/5
37-41: Vengeance 5/5
42-46: Vengeful Strikes 5/5
47-49: Holy Judgement 3/3
50-51: Improved Retribution Aura 2/2

Can also get Blessing of Kings & Seal of Command whenever, and then your last points in Deflection or whatever, you're about to hit level 60 and respec anyways.

"Rotation" is just judging Wisdom early and then using / judging Seal of Righteousness, or Seal of Command if you want to use that. Not sure how much of an improvement SoC is over base Righteousness while leveling. I haven't leveled Ret in awhile.

In some fights it might be better to just keep up Seal of Wisdom so you can regen enough mana to keep up with healing (vs. elites).

You can also gather 2-4 mobs up while questing and add Consecration damage, good for clearing lower level quests.

You can also level as Prot:

10-14: Redoubt 5/5
15-17: Precision 3/3
18-19: Toughness 2/5
20: Blessing of Sanctuary 1/1

Prioritize Sanctuary because it's really powerful at 20. Then if you're only interested in AOEing/questing go for 5/5 Divine Intellect and 2/2 Spiritual Focus, otherwise if you want to at least tank some early dungeons keep going down Prot:

21-23: Shield Specialization 3/3
24-26: Improved Righteous Fury 3/3
27-29: Toughness 5/5
30: Holy Shield

31-35: Divine Intellect 5/5
36-37: Spiritual Focus 2/2
38-40: Holy Judgement 3/3
41-43: Healing Light 3/3
44-45: Improved Lay on Hands 2/2
46-50: Illumination 5/5
51: Holy Shock
52-56: Divine Favor 5/5
57-59: Righteous Defense

This lets you transition into AOEing from 50 to 60. DME Lashers were about 1 hour per level from 53 to 60 here even with the dungeon nerf.

I also like leveling as Prot because unless you're getting carried by friends it's hard to make any progress as Ret Paladin at 60 without dual specing Prot and tanking dungeons, and it's nice to learn how to tank while leveling.

[Avixioroni]

Hi, just started playing paladin and I was wondering what's the easier way to level paladin? Can you recommend which talents I should pick, what rotation I should use when leveling? (Currently at level 16)

Uh, it depends. "Easiest" is probably just going down Ret tree and questing.

10-14: Benediction 5/5
15-16: Improved Judgement 2/2
17-19: Deflection 3/5
20-21: Pursuit of Justice 2/2

Pursuit of Justice is really nice while leveling so that's the first thing you want. I like to get Spiritual Focus next to be able to heal reliably in combat w/ Concentration Aura.

22-26: Divine Strength 5/5
27-28: Spiritual Focus 2/2

Further into Ret:

29-31: Conviction 3/5
32-34: Two-Handed Weapon Specialization 3/3
35-36: Conviction 5/5
37-41: Vengeance 5/5
42-46: Vengeful Strikes 5/5
47-49: Holy Judgement 3/3
50-51: Improved Retribution Aura 2/2

Can also get Blessing of Kings & Seal of Command whenever, and then your last points in Deflection or whatever, you're about to hit level 60 and respec anyways.

"Rotation" is just judging Wisdom early and then using / judging Seal of Righteousness, or Seal of Command if you want to use that. Not sure how much of an improvement SoC is over base Righteousness while leveling. I haven't leveled Ret in awhile.

In some fights it might be better to just keep up Seal of Wisdom so you can regen enough mana to keep up with healing (vs. elites).

You can also gather 2-4 mobs up while questing and add Consecration damage, good for clearing lower level quests.

You can also level as Prot:

10-14: Redoubt 5/5
15-17: Precision 3/3
18-19: Toughness 2/5
20: Blessing of Sanctuary 1/1

Prioritize Sanctuary because it's really powerful at 20. Then if you're only interested in AOEing/questing go for 5/5 Divine Intellect and 2/2 Spiritual Focus, otherwise if you want to at least tank some early dungeons keep going down Prot:

21-23: Shield Specialization 3/3
24-26: Improved Righteous Fury 3/3
27-29: Toughness 5/5
30: Holy Shield

31-35: Divine Intellect 5/5
36-37: Spiritual Focus 2/2
38-40: Holy Judgement 3/3
41-43: Healing Light 3/3
44-45: Improved Lay on Hands 2/2
46-50: Illumination 5/5
51: Holy Shock
52-56: Divine Favor 5/5
57-59: Righteous Defense

This lets you transition into AOEing from 50 to 60. DME Lashers were about 1 hour per level from 53 to 60 here even with the dungeon nerf.

I also like leveling as Prot because unless you're getting carried by friends it's hard to make any progress as Ret Paladin at 60 without dual specing Prot and tanking dungeons, and it's nice to learn how to tank while leveling.

Thanks for the tip friend! I'm trying to learn how to tank since I thought it would be fun
Might go for a Vampirism build I found on YT and see how it plays out.

[Choromatsusan]

Hi, just started playing paladin and I was wondering what's the easier way to level paladin? Can you recommend which talents I should pick, what rotation I should use when leveling? (Currently at level 16)

Uh, it depends. "Easiest" is probably just going down Ret tree and questing.

10-14: Benediction 5/5
15-16: Improved Judgement 2/2
17-19: Deflection 3/5
20-21: Pursuit of Justice 2/2

Pursuit of Justice is really nice while leveling so that's the first thing you want. I like to get Spiritual Focus next to be able to heal reliably in combat w/ Concentration Aura.

22-26: Divine Strength 5/5
27-28: Spiritual Focus 2/2

Further into Ret:

29-31: Conviction 3/5
32-34: Two-Handed Weapon Specialization 3/3
35-36: Conviction 5/5
37-41: Vengeance 5/5
42-46: Vengeful Strikes 5/5
47-49: Holy Judgement 3/3
50-51: Improved Retribution Aura 2/2

Can also get Blessing of Kings & Seal of Command whenever, and then your last points in Deflection or whatever, you're about to hit level 60 and respec anyways.

"Rotation" is just judging Wisdom early and then using / judging Seal of Righteousness, or Seal of Command if you want to use that. Not sure how much of an improvement SoC is over base Righteousness while leveling. I haven't leveled Ret in awhile.

In some fights it might be better to just keep up Seal of Wisdom so you can regen enough mana to keep up with healing (vs. elites).

You can also gather 2-4 mobs up while questing and add Consecration damage, good for clearing lower level quests.

You can also level as Prot:

10-14: Redoubt 5/5
15-17: Precision 3/3
18-19: Toughness 2/5
20: Blessing of Sanctuary 1/1

Prioritize Sanctuary because it's really powerful at 20. Then if you're only interested in AOEing/questing go for 5/5 Divine Intellect and 2/2 Spiritual Focus, otherwise if you want to at least tank some early dungeons keep going down Prot:

21-23: Shield Specialization 3/3
24-26: Improved Righteous Fury 3/3
27-29: Toughness 5/5
30: Holy Shield

31-35: Divine Intellect 5/5
36-37: Spiritual Focus 2/2
38-40: Holy Judgement 3/3
41-43: Healing Light 3/3
44-45: Improved Lay on Hands 2/2
46-50: Illumination 5/5
51: Holy Shock
52-56: Divine Favor 5/5
57-59: Righteous Defense

This lets you transition into AOEing from 50 to 60. DME Lashers were about 1 hour per level from 53 to 60 here even with the dungeon nerf.

I also like leveling as Prot because unless you're getting carried by friends it's hard to make any progress as Ret Paladin at 60 without dual specing Prot and tanking dungeons, and it's nice to learn how to tank while leveling.

Thanks for the tip friend! I'm trying to learn how to tank since I thought it would be fun
Might go for a Vampirism build I found on YT and see how it plays out.

Judgements Classic Leveling guide has some useful tips on weapons as you level as well!