PvP realm: inherent problems and classic+ solutions

[Dragoneye]

Hello!

I am really thankful to the developer and GM team for all the love for the community and extremely time efficient updates. It looks to me that there is a real potential for this server to make great additions to classic+ tradition, and this is the reason why I am writing this post.

We all know that Turtle neglected a big part of the game: PvP. This is why someone had the audacity to reply (and this was the first reply to the post) "PvP update when?" to the TWoW forum post about shutting down. That shit is still funny. Well, some of the Turtle changes went into good direction, but imo they are still superficial. They don't fix the fundamental toxicity of the PvP server mode. This is where I believe Octo could make a big difference with their PvP server.

What is this fundamental problem I see with PvP server? Most of us know that WPvP can be an extremely fun, enrichening experience. But we also know that it can be extremely unfun; as we get older, we understand there is no point to waste time to some nolifer ganking us in Redridge. So, the fundamental problem of PvP servers is onesided interaction in the world. What precisely is the unfun aspect of WPvP? The IMPOSSIBILITY of winning an encounter. When one creates a character on a PvP realm, he or she decides that he or she can be attacked, but one shouldn't decide that one most suffer for prolonged time without the possibility of change. Some of the most fun we had is when we win the fight against all odds! We don't have the fun when we know the fight is unwinnable.

The most important contributing factor to this IMPOSSIBILITY is the level difference. Gear should be left aside in this discussion. The point of the game is to get better gear, so this is a separate topic of endgame PvP balance. I am talking about leveling experience. The difference in numbers should also be left aside. This is a MMO, so you should communicate with others to help you fight with the opposing faction. THE LEVEL DIFFERENCE is what generates PvP toxicity: THE IMPOSSIBILITY OF WINNING A FIGHT DUE TO HUGE LEVEL GAP is the UNFUN and TOXIC aspect of a PvP server mode.

I will propose two solutions to this problem, not being sure which one is better, but leaning towards the second one if applied correctly.

The first solution is to disable PvP mode in interaction with people that are, for instance, 10 levels lower or higher, if the fight isn't initiated by the lower lvl player. (level number could be decided by the team) This is a brute force mechanism to make IMPOSSIBILTY of winning a fight a POSSIBILITY. Even though I believe this would kind of work and make a server better place, I dislike the fact that it narrows the freedom of possibility for the player.

The second solution is the PENALTY for the higher level player that initiated the interaction with a lower lvl player that cannot be won by the same player. What kind of penalty? The first thing that comes to mind is that killing lower lvls should also amount to dishonorable kills. But this means that someone who doesn't care for ranks can grief all he or she wants. So the penalty must be a different kind of penalty that pertains to the character as a whole. LOOSING GOLD may be the simplest way to regulate this kind of behavior. Of course, the mechanism of loosing gold could be sophisticated. For instance, all the faction vendors could be more expensive -- food, repairs. etc. RADICAL LOSS OF REPUTATION with your allied factions can be another one. Neither alliance nor horde want such a player in their cities. This would mean that you could easily become hated with your own towns, loosing access to Orgrimmar, Stormwind and maybe even all, if you decided to grief all over the world. (for instance, griefing in Ashenvale would destroy night elf or orc reputation, while griefing in thousand needles would destroy tauren or night elf reputation, depending if you are alliance or horde). This kind of mechanism is more sophisticated as it doesn't restrict the freedom of the player in the precise moment, but PUNISHES THE DEGENERATE REPETITION OF ANTISOCIAL AND UNFUN BEHAVIOR. Of course, this second mechanism would also have to operate on the basis of the recognition of level difference, it just isn't brute force disabled as it is in the first solution.

I believe that some of these additions would make for a great Classic+ PvP base. Thanks again to the devs and GMs for doing their best and I cant wait to see their additions to the WoW universe.

[Darktifa]

1. Twinks exist
2. A entity such as the infamous "Redridgeboss" will keep sniping low levels no matter the consequences
Losing rep on your faction for killing the opposite faction is ridiculous

I advise you to play on the pve realm

[Dragoneye]

I advise you think about something you read before replying. This is a suggestion for the developers, that is, if they think something can be improved about standard PvP servers. Since you aren't one, you better skip the topic. No one in their right mind thinks killing low lvls is fun. Even it it was fun in 2004, it is not fun today.

[Darktifa]

I advise you think about something you read before replying. This is a suggestion for the developers, that is, if they think something can be improved about standard PvP servers. Since you aren't one, you better skip the topic. No one in their right mind thinks killing low lvls is fun. Even it it was fun in 2004, it is not fun today.

This is a forum where the community discuss
If u can't handle critisicm on your suggestions, i have no clue wtf you are doing here

[Dragoneye]

You didn't understand the point of the post obviously. Read it a few times then think of real counterarguments. Thanks for the bump anyway. My last reply to you cause there is no point in derailing the discussion.

[Duraluminium]

Trying to fix lowbie ganking with dishonorable kills will kill outdoor experience for all the other players. You cannot attack city or town without risking to kill some lowbies.
Ganking was always a thing on PVP servers. It's not a good thing, but it's also not as bad as some try to claim.
Just don't play on a PVP server if you are afraid of ganking, there are multiple other options for you.

[Dragoneye]

Trying to fix lowbie ganking with dishonorable kills will kill outdoor experience for all the other players. You cannot attack city or town without risking to kill some lowbies.
Ganking was always a thing on PVP servers. It's not a good thing, but it's also not as bad as some try to claim.
Just don't play on a PVP server if you are afraid of ganking, there are multiple other options for you.

Yeah you didn't read the post either. But thanks for the reply.

[Darktifa]

You didn't understand the point of the post obviously. Read it a few times then think of real counterarguments. Thanks for the bump anyway. My last reply to you cause there is no point in derailing the discussion.

what point?
You suggested two things, which are awful and show inexperience about pvp realms
You are the only one derailing the discussion with your denial to provide any counter arguments

[Duraluminium]

Trying to fix lowbie ganking with dishonorable kills will kill outdoor experience for all the other players. You cannot attack city or town without risking to kill some lowbies.
Ganking was always a thing on PVP servers. It's not a good thing, but it's also not as bad as some try to claim.
Just don't play on a PVP server if you are afraid of ganking, there are multiple other options for you.

Yeah you didn't read the post either. But thanks for the reply.

I've read it.
In the first 8 million letters you tell that ganking lowbies is bad, and I'm not arguing with that.
In the second 8 million letters you tell that there are two 'solutions', and I dislike both, cause both will break WPVP experience for many other players.
The problem of ganking in MMOs is older than WOW, and there was never a good solution to it.
My solution is to level to 60, get gear and hunt those who were ganking you on your leveling.
Your solution would be probably to just play on a PVE server in a safe environment.

[Dragoneye]

Trying to fix lowbie ganking with dishonorable kills will kill outdoor experience for all the other players. You cannot attack city or town without risking to kill some lowbies.
Ganking was always a thing on PVP servers. It's not a good thing, but it's also not as bad as some try to claim.
Just don't play on a PVP server if you are afraid of ganking, there are multiple other options for you.

Yeah you didn't read the post either. But thanks for the reply.

I've read it.
In the first 8 million letters you tell that ganking lowbies is bad, and I'm not arguing with that.
In the second 8 million letters you tell that there are two 'solutions', and I dislike both, cause both will break WPVP experience for many other players.
The problem of ganking in MMOs is older than WOW, and there was never a good solution to it.
My solution is to level to 60, get gear and hunt those who were ganking you on your leveling.
Your solution would be probably to just play on a PVE server in a safe environment.

Reading means understanding and from your replies it is obvious that you didn't understand the essence of the proposed solutions. If you think my post is long you should try reading a book.

Hopefully someone who actually thinks there is something wrong with PvP server mode will reply, and not only people who don't want to see any changes.