Pregnant Banned.

[Kban1]

Why would you ban a player for exploiting the glitches tho? It's what players do fix the glitch if you can, if not well..

Instead of constantly making the same mistake, one should report the error instead of repeating it.

Sure, but this is 20 yo game. If you check youtube whole lotta exploit tutorials there, probably reported thousands of times. I'm saying this as a noob btw, prety much new to the game, but I've seen this many times in other games. Players always try to outsmart the system to their advantage, it's just how it is

True

[Cookieguy]

To say it first, I have no connection to Icantkite beside being also one of the very early players on this server and just recognizing the name/character from just seeing him around since the start.
I write this because it might be any player that this ban could have happend to that uses some sort of glitches, which are often known for many years and were never severly punished on other servers.

The exploit is afaik quite known and used on other servers (also was on twow) without punishment from what I have heared.

Basically you log out under some stairs which lets you upon relog glitch through the ground into the Ras boss room - you still have to 1v1 the boss normally.

What I wonder, this is stated on the rules site:
"The following are considered Bug Abuse/Exploitation, and are forbidden on our network: Abuse of any bug or exploit to obtain unfair gains (gold, items, experience, reputation) or glory (killing NPCs, killing players)."

To me this is a very very general rule, and since this is not clearly stating that this specific exploit is not allowed (there are other frequently used expoits/glitches that are apperantly so far not punished btw) there should at least be a warning first to the player that it is not allowed and they should stop instead of a insta ban.
I asked Icankite on the discord if there was any warning beforehand and he said there wasn't, so I take his word on that matter for now. He also said he did 80+ runs of that and only got banned after streaming it (I assume some people were just reporting him).

I think without a initial warning this ban seems unjust to me (not taking the harassment part here into account).

[Kestrel]

...

I think without a initial warning this ban seems unjust to me (not taking the harassment part here into account).

I don't fully disagree, this enforcement does partially take into account previous issues and harassment complaints. I also do primarily put the burden of patching these exploits on us the developers.

That said, we do feel necessary to come out publicly and make it clear that things like this which involve glitching through the map are considered exploits by us and will be treated as such. In general if you are doing something that involves deliberately clipping, moving, or teleporting through terrain, you are probably doing something you shouldn't.

[Cookieguy]

I don't fully disagree, this enforcement does partially take into account previous issues and harassment complaints. I also do primarily put the burden of patching these exploits on us the developers.

I can for sure imagine our own server gossip girl/drama queen having a bunch of package (I did read through a lot of the Levia drama, too) and I assumed this exploit would be looked at as seperate thing.
But for sure I am with you on getting rid of expoits/bug usage, and if you guys ever find the time to patch these things out it will solve issues like that.

That said, we do feel necessary to come out publicly and make it clear that things like this which involve glitching through the map are considered exploits by us and will be treated as such. In general if you are doing something that involves deliberately clipping, moving, or teleporting through terrain, you are probably doing something you shouldn't.

Yes it would be nice to be a bit more specific on that in the rules and make the players aware of it, since most of other servers dont see it as an issue and most of the players doing them see it as a perfectly fine thing to do.

My main point on the matter tho is still a warning should have been given and not an instant ban, if it really was a first time offense from him exploiting/glitching. But ofc give him some ass spanking for harassment

[Adesta113]

What I wonder, this is stated on the rules site:
"The following are considered Bug Abuse/Exploitation, and are forbidden on our network: Abuse of any bug or exploit to obtain unfair gains (gold, items, experience, reputation) or glory (killing NPCs, killing players)."

To me this is a very very general rule, and since this is not clearly stating that this specific exploit is not allowed (there are other frequently used expoits/glitches that are apperantly so far not punished btw) there should at least be a warning first to the player that it is not allowed and they should stop instead of a insta ban.

Wdym? It's SHOULD be general, cuz ANY exploit/glitches is violence. And it's absolutely clearly - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor . Killing boss clearly yields gold and/or item. Or you think they should watch youtube for specify every possible exploit in rules? Why does everyone try to find loopholes in rules - pointing out that something wasn't explicitly spelled out, when they could simply play honestly and in good faith? And when exploits or glitches are discovered (or confirmed that we have same here as at other servers), why not just report it to bug tracker and refrain from using them?

[Ciggitybutts]

What I wonder, this is stated on the rules site:
"The following are considered Bug Abuse/Exploitation, and are forbidden on our network: Abuse of any bug or exploit to obtain unfair gains (gold, items, experience, reputation) or glory (killing NPCs, killing players)."

To me this is a very very general rule, and since this is not clearly stating that this specific exploit is not allowed (there are other frequently used expoits/glitches that are apperantly so far not punished btw) there should at least be a warning first to the player that it is not allowed and they should stop instead of a insta ban.

Wdym? It's SHOULD be general, cuz ANY exploit/glitches is violence. And it's absolutely clearly - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor . Killing boss clearly yields gold and/or item. Or you think they should watch youtube for specify every possible exploit in rules? Why does everyone try to find loopholes in rules - pointing out that something wasn't explicitly spelled out, when they could simply play honestly and in good faith? And when exploits or glitches are discovered (or confirmed that we have same here as at other servers), why not just report it to bug tracker and refrain from using them?

Glitching out of the map on purpose for anything other then something like visiting Old Ironforge should be longer then a 3 day IMO but I'm not the one doing bans. They would be lucky with a 1month from me haha.

Having fun and getting gainz are two different things I would assume. There is a bar under SW.

[Darien]

That said, we do feel necessary to come out publicly and make it clear that things like this which involve glitching through the map are considered exploits by us and will be treated as such. In general if you are doing something that involves deliberately clipping, moving, or teleporting through terrain, you are probably doing something you shouldn't.

Ciggitybutts brings up a fair point, though, Kestrel -- if it's something that involves obvious map glitching but yields no gameplay advantage, like visiting Old Ironforge, is that considered a punishable exploit? Or is that an okay thing to do?

[Cookieguy]

Wdym? It's SHOULD be general, cuz ANY exploit/glitches is violence. And it's absolutely clearly - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor . Killing boss clearly yields gold and/or item. Or you think they should watch youtube for specify every possible exploit in rules? Why does everyone try to find loopholes in rules - pointing out that something wasn't explicitly spelled out, when they could simply play honestly and in good faith? And when exploits or glitches are discovered (or confirmed that we have same here as at other servers), why not just report it to bug tracker and refrain from using them?

As I said on most other servers no one seemed to care from what I have heard even if a rule like that was in place. I am just pointing out that these exploits were seen as normal gameplay and not to defend anyone doing them (imo these should be for sure punished if continued).
Like Zul Farrak and Zul Gurub wall glitches were done on twow without punishment and I am pretty sure the written rules there were basically the same as on octo.

[Adesta113]

What I wonder, this is stated on the rules site:
"The following are considered Bug Abuse/Exploitation, and are forbidden on our network: Abuse of any bug or exploit to obtain unfair gains (gold, items, experience, reputation) or glory (killing NPCs, killing players)."

To me this is a very very general rule, and since this is not clearly stating that this specific exploit is not allowed (there are other frequently used expoits/glitches that are apperantly so far not punished btw) there should at least be a warning first to the player that it is not allowed and they should stop instead of a insta ban.

Wdym? It's SHOULD be general, cuz ANY exploit/glitches is violence. And it's absolutely clearly - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor . Killing boss clearly yields gold and/or item. Or you think they should watch youtube for specify every possible exploit in rules? Why does everyone try to find loopholes in rules - pointing out that something wasn't explicitly spelled out, when they could simply play honestly and in good faith? And when exploits or glitches are discovered (or confirmed that we have same here as at other servers), why not just report it to bug tracker and refrain from using them?

Glitching out of the map on purpose for anything other then something like visiting Old Ironforge should be longer then a 3 day IMO but I'm not the one doing bans. They would be lucky with a 1month from me haha.

Having fun and getting gainz are two different things I would assume. There is a bar under SW.

Heard about Old Ironforge, never tried. But yeah, as I wrote and as rules said - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor. Visiting Old Ironforge or some bar under SW not give you anything, except, well fun maybe. But for sure such "exploited visit" will not give you gold (or better gold per hour farm result) or items (or better items per hour farm result). And as I wrote (again) - attitude toward violations here is generally too lenient; even for repeated violations only short-term bans are issued.

[Adesta113]

Wdym? It's SHOULD be general, cuz ANY exploit/glitches is violence. And it's absolutely clearly - if you use it for personal gain in form of gold, item, or honor . Killing boss clearly yields gold and/or item. Or you think they should watch youtube for specify every possible exploit in rules? Why does everyone try to find loopholes in rules - pointing out that something wasn't explicitly spelled out, when they could simply play honestly and in good faith? And when exploits or glitches are discovered (or confirmed that we have same here as at other servers), why not just report it to bug tracker and refrain from using them?

As I said on most other servers no one seemed to care from what I have heard even if a rule like that was in place. I am just pointing out that these exploits were seen as normal gameplay and not to defend anyone doing them (imo these should be for sure punished if continued).
Like Zul Farrak and Zul Gurub wall glitches were done on twow without punishment and I am pretty sure the written rules there were basically the same as on octo.

Administration’s attitude was clearly dismissive there. They left the SM Cath bug with respawn bosses unfixed for probably six months or even more. However I left groups that suggested to exploit it. Cuz no matter how players interpret the rules — what is actually written there matters. Don't need to try to interpret rules and appeal to idea that "that’s how it’s always been done here or there" instead of simply following rules.