So setting up loot rules before a dungeon.

[Arielshrauski]

Honest question, to actually have a good reason for a report should ninjalooting happen during an instance, it would be recommended to send something like this prior to starting a dungeon?

''Mandatory Terms of ServiceTM: To avoid issues, do not roll need for items that are clearly not meant for your chosen role, with the exception of Offspec/Transmog items no one in the party needs on, there will be NO ninja looting.

This is mostly for obvious cases, don't need on: shields as a DPS, 2H weapons as a tank, healing power items as a non-healer, etc, etc. Continuing with the instance beyond this point will be treated as a complete agreement to these loot rules.

You may screenshot these messages so that if someone ninjaloots during the instance, you'll hopefully be able to use it for a valid report''

Just trying to avoid issues in the future.

Edit: So this is going a bit off topic so let me specify once again, i'm talking about dungeon loot, not raid loot, as dungeons are not pre-planned like raids, ninjalooters are all over. Also it's for very obvious cases, i'm not gonna get antsy over a dps rolling on a high stamina armor piece or a tank rolling on an armor piece with agility and attack power.
Now; i've seen dps roll on shields because they ''can still equip them so who cares'', tanks or healers rolling on 2h dps weapons for offspec, and fucking casters rolling on 2h weapons just to be an asshole, and i've seen that these people go unpunished because gms will tell you that loot rules need to be established before an instance begins.

[Kimaka99]

Depends i do agree with the os/tmog part, but some itens might be limited to interpretation based on classe and role. Whats the scenario?
Also a tip if you the leader you can just set master Loot Kick player that you think ninja the item finish roll and invite him back. Item Will Stay on body and u can manually assigned it, just remember when you do this you better Be sure whats being rolled and what players intention when rolling.

[Arielshrauski]

Depends i do agree with the os/tmog part, but some itens might be limited to interpretation based on classe and role. Whats the scenario?
Also a tip if you the leader you can just set master Loot Kick player that you think ninja the item finish roll and invite him back. Item Will Stay on body and u can manually assigned it, just remember when you do this you better Be sure whats being rolled and what players intention when rolling.

Thanks for the tip that's really handy.

Yeah of course, i'm talking very obvious situations, like i've seen dps rolling on shields the tank needed on because ''hurr durr i can equip it who cares'', they obviously got insta kicked by the tank but yeah, i wouldn't really pull some ''oh it has more stamina'' bullshit if some DW warrior rolled on a 1h.

[Rathotdog]

The best solution is to kick those players.

We had a BFD run earlier this week and two players from the same guild kept Needing on green gems, after we told them it's not cool to need on them, and we should all just Greed.

After they Needed again, after telling them twice not to, we just kicked them and 3maned the rest of the dung.

I know it's not a big deal, it's just low level gems, but at the same time it's extremely disrespectful to go against the set up social rules, especially if being asked politely to follow.

That's the only way these players can learn not to do this, to have them go through real repercussions.

[Hfm1]

The best solution is to kick those players.

We had a BFD run earlier this week and two players from the same guild kept Needing on green gems, after we told them it's not cool to need on them, and we should all just Greed.

After they Needed again, after telling them twice not to, we just kicked them and 3maned the rest of the dung.

I know it's not a big deal, it's just low level gems, but at the same time it's extremely disrespectful to go against the set up social rules, especially if being asked politely to follow.

That's the only way these players can learn not to do this, to have them go through real repercussions.

Thats crazy from u guys. U have multiple quest involvimg gems and also a profession and multiple recipes for gems on otger prefessions. U dont understand need its not all greed cause u feel cheated. I need ALL gems ever cause its profession mats. Incredible short sighted behaviour and also not in line with loot rules. Need means i need that for sth and its not on u to decide if thats ok or not.

[Bluemerchant]

The best solution is to kick those players.

We had a BFD run earlier this week and two players from the same guild kept Needing on green gems, after we told them it's not cool to need on them, and we should all just Greed.

After they Needed again, after telling them twice not to, we just kicked them and 3maned the rest of the dung.

I know it's not a big deal, it's just low level gems, but at the same time it's extremely disrespectful to go against the set up social rules, especially if being asked politely to follow.

That's the only way these players can learn not to do this, to have them go through real repercussions.

Thats crazy from u guys. U have multiple quest involvimg gems and also a profession and multiple recipes for gems on otger prefessions. U dont understand need its not all greed cause u feel cheated. I need ALL gems ever cause its profession mats. Incredible short sighted behaviour and also not in line with loot rules. Need means i need that for sth and its not on u to decide if thats ok or not.

BOE items in dungeons (mats included) are GREED (unless specified in the recruiting message). Gold is gold, for everyone.
The fact that you are the only one doing it, just confirms you going against the trend. The party kick is in the right here.
Ofc you can just go and make your own party and tell IN ADVANCE that boe and mats are HR, like all the MC pugs (not that i like those either), but that's the payment for organising and dealing with the BS of 20+ people.

[Straydog]

I´m thinking on joining the comunity as an old old wow player,. This topic concerns me because when i used to play, like 20+ years ago, you could roll need for items designed to your class, if they improved what you already had, what i mean is, as an example, paladin could never roll need for a mail, leather or cloth gear, unless no one else wanted the item.
Many years later when i came back for a while, apparently no one was following that rule anymore, under the precept that anything that improved your gear was good enough reason for a need roll. Pretty selfish if you ask me.
Maybe i´m mistaken, but i think there are more or less the same amount of items designed for each class, so objetively it would not be fair that basically plate users can roll for everything, then mail, then leather, and last cloth users can only roll for cloth gear.
Is this the way people roll for items still? So a ele shamy can roll for druid, mage,lock and spriest gear, and a holy pala can roll for every haler gear available in the game?

[Hysterics]

BOE items in dungeons (mats included) are GREED (unless specified in the recruiting message). Gold is gold, for everyone.

There is absolutely no rule about BOE items being greed only. If that were the case, you couldn't even roll need on them, right? That's simply an idea in your head, not a rule. There's a difference. Gold doesn't get rolled on so I'm not sure why you brought that up--- oh wait, so you're saying you would just sell those Gems? Interesting. So you wouldn't actually "need" them because you're just selling them, often at vendor price by the way........ and this guy actually needs them. So he's rolling need. Because that's how the game was designed. I bet you would take a Flask recipe from an Alchemist too right, because in your eyes that's just gold. Extremely selfish and scummy behavior and your complete lack of self awareness is almost comical.

tell IN ADVANCE that boe and mats are HR,

Rolling need on something does not mean it's HRd. Get a grip.

boe and mats are HR, like all the MC pugs (not that i like those either)

Yeah something tells me you have never had to organize an end game raid in your life. Of course the materials are HRd in MC runs. You're a pug. You're joining a random raid, without having to consider anything. All those considerations have been made by the raid organizers. The time spent forming the groups, getting the right compositions, ensuring they have all the soaks, etc etc. You're just along for the ride, mate. Also I'd imagine a good portion if not all of those MC pugs you're talking about are partial guild runs, and the materials are going into their guild bank, to be requested by guild members that show up weekly-- not random pugs that don't even understand what goes into forming end game raids and will never show up again.

[Hysterics]

I´m thinking on joining the comunity as an old old wow player,. This topic concerns me because when i used to play, like 20+ years ago, you could roll need for items designed to your class, if they improved what you already had, what i mean is, as an example, paladin could never roll need for a mail, leather or cloth gear, unless no one else wanted the item.
Many years later when i came back for a while, apparently no one was following that rule anymore, under the precept that anything that improved your gear was good enough reason for a need roll. Pretty selfish if you ask me.
Maybe i´m mistaken, but i think there are more or less the same amount of items designed for each class, so objetively it would not be fair that basically plate users can roll for everything, then mail, then leather, and last cloth users can only roll for cloth gear.
Is this the way people roll for items still? So a ele shamy can roll for druid, mage,lock and spriest gear, and a holy pala can roll for every haler gear available in the game?

If it's an upgrade it's an upgrade. The only scenario you would maybe try to min max gear distribution to the level you're talking about would be in guild environments. A lot of the time in those guild scenarios the problem kind of solves itself due to how most guilds use various loot rules. You aren't going to waste your DKP on stuff that's only a mild upgrade for example. You're not going to waste your SRs on stuff that's only a mild upgrade.

But yes an "ele shamy can roll for druid, mage, lock, and spriest gear" because it's all just caster gear. The pieces don't belong to any one class. They belong to casters. The only issue here would be if an enhancement shaman was to roll on caster gear for his offspec. Often at end game all you see is MS > OS meaning Main Spec over Off Spec. If it benefits your main spec, and it's an upgrade, you roll on it.

But it is also more complicated on this server than Classic servers in general because for example a Prot Paladin benefits very strongly from Intellect and Spellpower. You will 100% see people rolling need on stuff that might seem weird to you at first but are in fact legitimate rolls.

Maybe i´m mistaken, but i think there are more or less the same amount of items designed for each class,

That's less true here, and more true on Classic.

a holy pala can roll for every haler gear available in the game?

Better example would be a Resto Shaman being able to roll on Cloth / Leather and yes, they absolutely can, some of Rshams BIS is Cloth/Leather. Holy Paladins though, it depends. Because Holy Paladins on this server get 2% of their armor as Healing Power. So they're very much incentivized to wear plate at all times. That said, there are still some examples where Mail, Leather, and even Cloth gear would still be technically better for them-- but it's not nearly as common as it is for Shaman to wear lower tier armors.

[Straydog]

Thank you for your response. I don´t agree with it, but a response is what i was looking for.
Clearly some classes highly benefit from this, plate the most, then mail and so on. And it´s not fair at all.
Of course gear is meant to be rolled for specific classes, if not, different types or armour have no sense, and fair would be that every class should be able to roll for every gear that improve them, healer, caster or melee, then the gear would "adjust" it´s armor value depending on the class that won the roll.
I like to play Priest, and i get mad when i cannot roll for 80% of the loot, and when some cloth pops up, a pala says "but that improves my gear" and takes it, when he already took 4 different gear pieces of plate, mail and leather.
If no one needs it and improves your gear, of course, be my guest, but there should be an order for loot roll based on the type of armour and class.