Overtuned classes poll

[Duraluminium]

So there is a new poll (at least on the PVP server):

poll1.PNG (126.53 KiB) Viewed 31192 times

poll2.PNG (181.42 KiB) Viewed 31192 times

I'd like to tell devs about few things that they need to keep in mind:
1. There are overtuned specs, but in most cases not all the specs of the class
2. There are different PVP formats, and the class/spec that is OP in one format is not that OP in the others

For example, in my opinion, shocker tanks shamans are very much overtuned in small fights, especially on WSG.
But in mass WPVP they are just a slightly more tanky target for aoe, they do not do any significant impact there.

Having that in mind, there may be multiple opinions on what is the most overtuned class/spec in the game, but I will post my own opinion here:
1. Any shaman with tank talents, especially shocker tank
2. Physical retri paladins in top gear become very OP, but in low and medium gear most of them are a joke
3. MM hunters when they got a good team to protect them, so they can do their rotation. Especially in high crit PVE gear in the later phases


My overall suggestion for the first wave of fixes would be:

1. For the shamans put the tanky talens to the far end of the ench tree, so hybrids will be unable to take them. Also maybe increase talent points spent for all trees, cause there are disgusting talents that significantly buff all the stats and damage done for little to no cost of talent points. And they stack multiplicatively.
Some deep review of the talent trees is needed there, but begin with removing the ability for hybrid specs to become tanky. It will solve most of the issues.

2. Holy paladins - just ask the players who played both on resto shamans and holy paladins. Like Knifewrench (Goober). I cannot suggest here
Physical retri paladins - some rework is needed to fix that gap between being OP and being a joke. Cause retris look easy to play, and they really are imo, but in PVP players need to push way more buttons and suddenly the gameplay becomes way harder. Make retris harder to play (not weaker) in low and middle gear on leveling and in PVE, so players will have to either increase their personal skills on retri, or pick another spec, or even another class. Also some changes can be made to make physical retris less OP in the top gear, but they don't have top gear in the current phase afaik.

3. All the other stuff is either not that much needed right now, or has no obvious way of fixing it in my opinion. Maybe fix some on-hit mechanics and give holy and disc priests a little more armor.

[Berdal]

I'm confused. Won't the devs have statistics that assert class performance in relevant categories?

It's not up to public debate whether the sun can cause sunburns...

Also, I prefer the point Blizzard made with regards to PvP in WoW Forever. Not ever class should be equal in 1v1 PvP (aside from the rock-paper-scissor effect). Some classes bring utility, some are stronger solo/leveling class, some are better in 3v3 plays etc.

[Cacaruta]

Nerf holy paladins, and shock shaman, those are most overtun specs, if I find someone saying feral=op he didn't get perma fear neither try killing a holy pala

[Knifewrench]

I'm confused. Won't the devs have statistics that assert class performance in relevant categories?

It's not up to public debate whether the sun can cause sunburns...

Also, I prefer the point Blizzard made with regards to PvP in WoW Forever. Not ever class should be equal in 1v1 PvP (aside from the rock-paper-scissor effect). Some classes bring utility, some are stronger solo/leveling class, some are better in 3v3 plays etc.

Statistics are bshit here, pve has xfaction. And on pvp there are no resto shamans but tons of holydins. This will cause terible balance if u use current statistics as metric for balance. But i get this goes over ur head.

[Knifewrench]

Nerf holy paladins, and shock shaman, those are most overtun specs, if I find someone saying feral=op he didn't get perma fear neither try killing a holy pala

Amen but 100% add resto shaman to it aswell. All 3 bonkers, and i playd restosham on TA, and holydin here. I had better time on restosham because no shockshams.

[Wubc]

Voted for pallies and shamans, but I do hope that any changes that are done do take the other specs in to consideration...

For example I see the frustration with shock shammies rolling around in essentially tank spec and pushing out sometimes silly single-target damage. However I personally I do not see how a holy Paladin is not already superior to a resto Shammy with them having instant casts, strong defensives, similar armor as "tank talented" shammies, freedom, CC, etcetc. If you nerf resto shammy durability, they would really need some tools to work with. Which is a perfectly fine trade-off and might even be more fun in the end. As far as holy pally, I don't really know what the fix would be since a lot of their strength comes from iconic class abilities that I don't necessarily want touched. I'm not certain it's as simple as adjusting numbers without causing other issues.

[Berdal]

Statistics are bshit here, pve has xfaction. And on pvp there are no resto shamans but tons of holydins. This will cause terible balance if u use current statistics as metric for balance. But i get this goes over ur head.

Are you a troll? I don't see any reason why statistics can't be analyzed only for the PvP realm in isolation?

Also, I'm not arguing for our against your personal view on resto shamen and holydins.

I just don't hold much objective credibility to the public opinion, nor do I think public opinion is much aligned...

Lastly, overtuned (or overpowered) classes is not necessarily in unison with class popularity. Class popularity should absolutely not be tuned by buffing/nerfing the class, unless of course they're correlated.

[Thaodan]

2. Holy paladins - just ask the players who played both on resto shamans and holy paladins. Like Knifewrench (Goober). I cannot suggest here
Physical retri paladins - some rework is needed to fix that gap between being OP and being a joke. Cause retris look easy to play, and they really are imo, but in PVP players need to push way more buttons and suddenly the gameplay becomes way harder. Make retris harder to play (not weaker) in low and middle gear on leveling and in PVE, so players will have to either increase their personal skills on retri, or pick another spec, or even another class. Also some changes can be made to make physical retris less OP in the top gear, but they don't have top gear in the current phase afaik.

I think there's a wide discrepancy between OP and weak when it comes to player power of that particular person getting target by another spec/class.

Like do you play the counter class yes or not? Do you play a clothy in weak gear/no-pvp gear?
I play ret and I know outside of bubble I'm a glass canon against certain classes, especially casters and poison rogue. Mana burns hit hard and dispell disables on of my abilities effectively.
Essentially what I'm saying is if I'm far enough in range to attack you something else went wrong before that.
This issue with burst and/or caster being my counter will only increase over time.

The strength in my class and my who can also heal is the defensive skills i.e. cleanse.

There's also the factor that under pressure you can't play the max dps in PvP if you're under pressure.

WoW is just not balanced for one vs one or even 2v2 or 3v3 and that's ok. Balancing wow against small scale combat doesn't work.

[Thaodan]

I'm confused. Won't the devs have statistics that assert class performance in relevant categories?

It's not up to public debate whether the sun can cause sunburns...

Also, I prefer the point Blizzard made with regards to PvP in WoW Forever. Not ever class should be equal in 1v1 PvP (aside from the rock-paper-scissor effect). Some classes bring utility, some are stronger solo/leveling class, some are better in 3v3 plays etc.

100%, Wow was never meant to be to be balanced for small scale combat. That's partly why Arena failed so hard.
Like I won't complain loosing against a rog in 1v1.

[Cope12]

idk why devs do this no one cares about this nonsense just give us some 2x and other qol already b4 yshaart dies like wtf