Nerf/rework holy paladin in PvP - Buff rogues & mages

[44monarh]

Holy paladin does too much with low apm heal spamming, its like theyre playing PvE. Somehow PvE playstyle is one of the most efficent things in PvP, it doesnt make any sense. Holy shock cd reset talent needs a rework, its like if shamans had natures swiftness every 6 seconds. The talent itself is 20 second CD - why would it be on a 6 second cd with holy strike? Its the tankiest spec in PvP while being a support

Mages are too fragile and do not do enough damage with how much they need to move and rogue is the same. The CC isnt as relevant with insignias removing everything

[Knifewrench]

Holy paladin does too much with low apm heal spamming, its like theyre playing PvE. Somehow PvE playstyle is one of the most efficent things in PvP, it doesnt make any sense. Holy shock cd reset talent needs a rework, its like if shamans had natures swiftness every 6 seconds. The talent itself is 20 second CD - why would it be on a 6 second cd with holy strike? Its the tankiest class in PvP while being a support

Mages are too fragile and do not do enough damage with how much they need to move and rogue is the same. The CC isnt as relevant with insignias removing everything

Since xrealm bgs i get to free cast, no kicks/pummels or counterspells also shaman output is way higher(lesser healwave base heal apmost 2x flash of light). That being said resto sham/ shocksham/ holydin all need nerf and so do some other(all in same patch) But i also just see everyone grief vs paladins by sending pets on em so they get free resets ect. Big part of it is huge skillisue. And rather then just nerfing paladin they should ask why everyone is use the libram they are and fix it instead? And its 100% not pve playstyle because u spam holystrike in pve and not crusader to reset holyshock.so often hunters chase me and send pet on me and i go "kek now u cant kill me anymore instead of just shooting at me and sending pet at a random"

[Dzielkus]

Haven't you met Malal or Neesh on BG ?

Hpalas are too strong (5 min cd for forbearance is a must), but i feel rogues and mages are quite ok.
Obviously, we also need nerf on shaman tanks shock dmg.
Arcane mages are mostly glass cannons, but skilled frost is unkillable.

Also good rogue can duel most classes 1v1.
I also find that most rogues played rogue just because op psn dmg, and beside using 1.2 speed weapons with instant poisons simply can't use skills properly.

[Knifewrench]

Haven't you met Malal or Neesh on BG ?

Hpalas are too strong (5 min cd for forbearance is a must), but i feel rogues and mages are quite ok.
Obviously, we also need nerf on shaman tanks shock dmg.
Arcane mages are mostly glass cannons, but skilled frost is unkillable.

Also good rogue can duel most classes 1v1.
I also find that most rogues played rogue just because op psn dmg, and beside using 1.2 speed weapons with instant poisons simply can't use skills properly.

I havent seens those paladins. Also ye pls just do 5min forbearance and call it a day. That doesnt do anything as a nerf. Also u run around as shaman in pvp with 4k hp, dont think ur take on pvpis relevent.

[Ollie]

Haven't you met Malal or Neesh on BG ?

Hpalas are too strong (5 min cd for forbearance is a must), but i feel rogues and mages are quite ok.
Obviously, we also need nerf on shaman tanks shock dmg.
Arcane mages are mostly glass cannons, but skilled frost is unkillable.

Also good rogue can duel most classes 1v1.
I also find that most rogues played rogue just because op psn dmg, and beside using 1.2 speed weapons with instant poisons simply can't use skills properly.

Rogues;

Well the reason you see so many rogues going assasination is because its the only real viable spec to kill high armor targets like paladins warriors and druids.

At the cost of the iconic spells like Preperation and hemo spec being gutted and turned into a pve support spec the combo builders just doesn't cut it. You have to ditch the pvp gear entirely and you have literally no room for error to execute a perfect opener, and even then 5 combo point evisc was heavily nerfed in the twow days so were left with assassination having to use stupid green 1.2 speed daggers being the meta.

As sub in full pvp gear as the game intends you to be, you'd typically use hemorrhage as a combo builder, in full pvp gear this combo builder will crit for 190 on a sunny day if you're lucky. That's if you get no miss at all because somehow they forgot to add hit on the pvp gear, this can be mitigated if you go put some points into the combat talents tree forcing you to spend 10 points while neglecting either damage or utility. So this is usually just ignored.

Other specs like backstab rogues are a meme and dont work outside a 5 minute CD on tea(forget it on plate), so you're bassically just lurking in the shadows until someone reaches 30% hp to open with a sick ambush and pray it crits. Then you realise even clothies have like 25% crit reduction and 5k hp so its like why even bother at all? So you reroll assasination spec and just dance around people and hope to get kills, that is the new way to play rogue and i hate it.

To top it off, the new weapons are coming to pvp soon. This is something i would like to address as well, Since assassination is the current pvp meta maybe thinking about reducing the daggers speed to 1.5 instead of 2.0?

I would implore you guys to also include the partisans armor as well to be on par with BWL, if anything please do not wait until march to release this because it will be a nightmare fighting BWL geared players with blue gear.

TLDR: Make sub a meaningful spec again, make physical damage great again, remove stupid crit reduction and dampening effects, this was a means to counter k40 gear entering bgs

Paladins;

I think they absolutely need to do something about the holy shock being reset on crusader strike needs a rework in pvp combat, and they need to give paladins a 5 minute CD on forbearance or else pvp is just a meme.

Right now the current meta is holy shock builds and paladins kiting 5 players across the map without even having to hard cast a single healing spell because of holy shock being reset on crusader strike at 6 seconds, plus GCD so every 7.5 seconds they get a free insta heal. To top it off they get hand of freedom, a stun, 2 bubbles, lay on hands, and dispels + insane output on damage.

Clay the paladin on N'zoth was able to go 19/0 in a match this morning and every other game i saw him in after that he had 0 deaths and over 10 kills per match. Keep in mind this is a healing spec ?

[Knifewrench]

but i get why u ask for forbearance cd increase because u assaulted BS with multiple people and i solo kept it bubbled and u still couldnt kill me and i bop'd 2min later WICH U DIDNT PURGE while shocking me so i could heal instead of saving it for interupt while pala cant reset holyshock in bop. so u propose some nerf out of spite that doesnt actually impact pvp much at all. all while ur a typical nzoth forum troll with 4k hp because u refuse to use any pvp gear so ur squishy as can be and then complain others are tanky who have 5.7k hp unbuffed with -27% crit dmg. all u managed to do on that BS assault was waste time and spit on me
https://imgur.com/a/5ot6lz1

[Knifewrench]

Haven't you met Malal or Neesh on BG ?

Hpalas are too strong (5 min cd for forbearance is a must), but i feel rogues and mages are quite ok.
Obviously, we also need nerf on shaman tanks shock dmg.
Arcane mages are mostly glass cannons, but skilled frost is unkillable.

Also good rogue can duel most classes 1v1.
I also find that most rogues played rogue just because op psn dmg, and beside using 1.2 speed weapons with instant poisons simply can't use skills properly.

Rogues;

Well the reason you see so many rogues going assasination is because its the only real viable spec to kill high armor targets like paladins warriors and druids.

At the cost of the iconic spells like Preperation and hemo spec being gutted and turned into a pve support spec the combo builders just doesn't cut it. You have to ditch the pvp gear entirely and you have literally no room for error to execute a perfect opener, and even then 5 combo point evisc was heavily nerfed in the twow days so were left with assassination having to use stupid green 1.2 speed daggers being the meta.

As sub in full pvp gear as the game intends you to be, you'd typically use hemorrhage as a combo builder, in full pvp gear this combo builder will crit for 190 on a sunny day if you're lucky. That's if you get no miss at all because somehow they forgot to add hit on the pvp gear, this can be mitigated if you go put some points into the combat talents tree forcing you to spend 10 points while neglecting either damage or utility. So this is usually just ignored.

Other specs like backstab rogues are a meme and dont work outside a 5 minute CD on tea(forget it on plate), so you're bassically just lurking in the shadows until someone reaches 30% hp to open with a sick ambush and pray it crits. Then you realise even clothies have like 25% crit reduction and 5k hp so its like why even bother at all? So you reroll assasination spec and just dance around people and hope to get kills, that is the new way to play rogue and i hate it.

To top it off, the new weapons are coming to pvp soon. This is something i would like to address as well, Since assassination is the current pvp meta maybe thinking about reducing the daggers speed to 1.5 instead of 2.0?

I would implore you guys to also include the partisans armor as well to be on par with BWL, if anything please do not wait until march to release this because it will be a nightmare fighting BWL geared players with blue gear.

TLDR: Make sub a meaningful spec again, make physical damage great again, remove stupid crit reduction and dampening effects, this was a means to counter k40 gear entering bgs

Paladins;

I think they absolutely need to do something about the holy shock being reset on crusader strike needs a rework in pvp combat, and they need to give paladins a 5 minute CD on forbearance or else pvp is just a meme.

Right now the current meta is holy shock builds and paladins kiting 5 players across the map without even having to hard cast a single healing spell because of holy shock being reset on crusader strike at 6 seconds, plus GCD so every 7.5 seconds they get a free insta heal. To top it off they get hand of freedom, a stun, 2 bubbles, lay on hands, and dispels + insane output on damage.

Clay the paladin on N'zoth was able to go 19/0 in a match this morning and every other game i saw him in after that he had 0 deaths and over 10 kills per match. Keep in mind this is a healing spec ?

once again i ask you to figure out why every "tanky" paladin is using a dps libram .... can u guys inform ur self on a spec before proposing dumb nerfs.

[Ollie]

I mean regardless of the libram, its pretty obvious it needs a nerf

[Knifewrench]

I mean regardless of the libram, its pretty obvious it needs a nerf

Well the libram increases holy shock healing by 20% aswell. Not like this item is a big cause of current meta, and its way better to just fix/dumpster on op items then class balance. Libram also got added one of last twow patches and this wasnt adressed.
Also tdlr on twow i a was giga tanky resto sham and i called for same nerfs (aka 2/3specs i call nerfs for i main, but let people that know the class give input instead of people like dzielkus who are clueless and cant pvp)

[Joeblack]

Hpala is by far the strongest healer in the game that even a bot like Knifewrench can play effortlessly
just stack HP + unlimited mana and call it godlike skill
and ofc the forum troll is here to defend his OP class, pathetic