Boosting Rule Adjustments

[Kestrel]

I'm curious how this affects more niche scenarios. For example, I have often used my main to run a low-level (non-challenge) alt through a specific dungeon 1-2 times to complete all quests for that dungeon. I don't mob tag/drop group at all, just essentially 2-man the dungeon. Is less sweaty stuff like that also going to get warnings/potential bans? Or, what if it is a high-level guildie running my low level through the same way (again, without any mob tagging/group dropping) simply to complete quests or get specific items?

My personal thoughts are that this would be acceptable, but rule as written this would not be allowed and a GM may attempt to enforce this with a warning to stop. I will bring this type of example to the team to see if there is agreeance there. We also have a few other potential compromises I will bring to them to discus which if any are things we would consider.

[Kestrel]

I'm not a huge fan of this change. I was an avid booster for my own second or third level 60 characters. As someone who has little time to play, i find it more enjoyable to experience a power fantasy on my main while leveling a utility character for a raid that my guild might be lacking than to traverse through the world through the same path I've traveled multitudes over. I know people think it takes away from the game, but I normally play between 0400-0630 server during the week. It's difficult to find players in major cities during these times let alone queued for dungeons or running around the world so i don't think it takes away from the social aspect of the game whatsoever.

Regardless, I would appreciate some more clarification on what is considered boosting vs "helping". If i run an alt through a bunch of dungeons to get great loot and make the leveling journey faster, does that make it boosting? or does it only apply to open-world dungeon farming? is sitting in DME chatting with a friend while they farm lashers boosting, or is it just hanging out with a friend while they farm some gold?

I would like to see some sort of adjustment to the xp system to help balance out the adjustment to encourage low-level play. Maybe a bonus to the xp of mobs when in a group within a certain level range could encourage more social interaction AND reduce the desire to boost a character.

The edge cases are still being worked out as you'd imagine, but my personal opinion is that a few runs (without group dropping for EXP gain) for loot is fair game and acceptable, DME exp soaking does not feel like boosting in my mind, partially because the EXP/Hour is minimal but also partially because the level gap is not extreme. I am sure some devs feel differently but for the edge case and rule enforcement I make those calls when they are escalated and that would be my decision.

I love this idea and also feel one of the next things we should be re-evaluating is the leveling speed, what we feel it should be long term, and how we best make that happen.

[Pancakes]

I think you need to listen to the community on this one Kestrel. No one asked for this addition to the rules and the vast majority of the community are expecting you to hold the values of turtlewow and keep the rules as similar as possible to that. This is a major change of rules that most people won't agree with, which is why you are being ratio'd. You will definitely lose server population over implementing this. To say that this is something turtlewow would have done if they had the manpower or means to is insane. They had been moderating for over 7 years.

Sure, and perhaps they did not make it a rule for another reason that I gave. As I said in another response (made after you posted this so no way you saw it first) perhaps the best compromise is to instead allow boosting, but enforce group dropping as an exploit. I would imagine the effect would be similar but does stick to the original TWoW rules, given this is a work around of a mechanic they specifically implemented/changed. Would this be more agreeable or feel like the same change with a different coat of pain? (genuine question)

Hey Kestrel, just wanted to chime in here with some concise perspective on how the conversation has developed so far.

It took way too long to figure out that whole ordeal was not about exterminating RMT off the face of this planet. I understand it is now about exploiting the tag-leave-kill-rejoin mechanic to power level a character, and whether this should be in the game.

My take on this: If you want this exploit gone, you are going to have to fix this server-side. Something like, if a non-grouped character is in an instance, nobody in the entire dungeon gets XP. You'll have to extend this to the open world, where characters *not* in a party, and *not* within +/-5 levels cannot get XP from attacking the same mob.

This is a solution I, and the vast majority of sane individuals, would accept. Because you are right, mob-tagging and killing out of group *is* an exploit of the party system.

[Miami]

I guess admins need to explicitly mention cases like:
Helping your alt to kill Hogger - allowed (unless alt is in any challenge mode)
Helping your alt to get some item from dungeon - allowed (unless alt is in any challenge mode)
Helping your alt to get Van Cleef's head from DM - allowed (unless alt is in any challenge mode)
Helping your alt to get some exp standing in Stockades for hours getting exp while you're clearing the dungeon - not allowed

[Hepallzx12]

I'm not a huge fan of this change. I was an avid booster for my own second or third level 60 characters. As someone who has little time to play, i find it more enjoyable to experience a power fantasy on my main while leveling a utility character for a raid that my guild might be lacking than to traverse through the world through the same path I've traveled multitudes over. I know people think it takes away from the game, but I normally play between 0400-0630 server during the week. It's difficult to find players in major cities during these times let alone queued for dungeons or running around the world so i don't think it takes away from the social aspect of the game whatsoever.

Regardless, I would appreciate some more clarification on what is considered boosting vs "helping". If i run an alt through a bunch of dungeons to get great loot and make the leveling journey faster, does that make it boosting? or does it only apply to open-world dungeon farming? is sitting in DME chatting with a friend while they farm lashers boosting, or is it just hanging out with a friend while they farm some gold?

I would like to see some sort of adjustment to the xp system to help balance out the adjustment to encourage low-level play. Maybe a bonus to the xp of mobs when in a group within a certain level range could encourage more social interaction AND reduce the desire to boost a character.

The edge cases are still being worked out as you'd imagine, but my personal opinion is that a few runs (without group dropping for EXP gain) for loot is fair game and acceptable, DME exp soaking does not feel like boosting in my mind, partially because the EXP/Hour is minimal but also partially because the level gap is not extreme. I am sure some devs feel differently but for the edge case and rule enforcement I make those calls when they are escalated and that would be my decision.

I love this idea and also feel one of the next things we should be re-evaluating is the leveling speed, what we feel it should be long term, and how we best make that happen.

This needs to be clarified before the rule is implemented. "This seems okay to me because the level gap is similar". By your own logic this is "skipping content" (content which people have done many many times mind you), so why is this okay but skipping levels 30-40 is not okay. I do not want a blanket rule that GMs can ban you for because they interpret it different than you.

[Ddawg]

While I don't like like this rule change I am glad you are communicating it more clearly now.

The best part of world of warcraft is the endgame raiding, at level 60 sweaty no lifers and casual people with jobs and kids can come and make great memories together.

Back on turtlewow it took at least six months of persuading, mob-tagging, leveling alts to his level and boosting from several people to get my casual buddy up to level 60 so we could raid together.
Not all of it was terrible, ofc we had some fun when leveling but nothing like when we were raiding later on.

I hope you would reconsider your stance on boosting, my fear is that this will alienate my casual friends (who btw often are the ones that leave money in the donation shop) from leveling up.
Sure, we can make alts and get them up to their level but its not like we always have time to play at the same time.

[Petefin]

The edge cases are still being worked out as you'd imagine, but my personal opinion is that a few runs (without group dropping for EXP gain) for loot is fair game and acceptable, DME exp soaking does not feel like boosting in my mind, partially because the EXP/Hour is minimal but also partially because the level gap is not extreme. I am sure some devs feel differently but for the edge case and rule enforcement I make those calls when they are escalated and that would be my decision.

Howabout next time, you figure all this shit out BEFORE issuing a new rule. Rules need to be explained so there are no possible way to misunderstand them.

[Sheluvsramar2]

1) Remove XP gains from mob tagging
2) code/create a debuff that will land on a player who leaves a party, and have it stick for 2 minutes and prevent XP gains for people who boost in dungs, drop group etc (to outlast the window of getting kicked out after 1 minute), no XP gain if there is a 10+ lvl difference
3) hard cap on how many mobs Paladin's consecrate can hit and it's scaling
4) hard nerf on Mage CoC or other AOE that still lets them 'boost'

The elephant in the room.


Battlegrounds.

You can pretty much get a whole level from 57-58 with approx 3.5 won games of Arathi Basin being played

Do we forecast nerfing BG experience? This will be the next path of least resistance for players and account sellers alike.

[Grttadls]

Please consider that people enjoy playing games in different ways than what the devs “intended”. I leveled 5 alts to 60 and 4 alts to 35 on turtle wow using self boosting. Each time I tried to beat my /played time of the last. I thought of it as speed running leveling which I found to be enjoyable. To all the people saying “if you don’t like leveling 1-60 go play retail”, that is the toxic elitism that turns so many people off from wow. You can enjoy classic wow in many different ways. Leveling is one of the ways you can enjoy it. I found self boosting to be enjoyable. In any game, speed runners always find ways to “break” the game and do it faster. Wow is no different. Let’s follow kestrels logic. Boosting is too fast and is skipping content? Ok no boosting. Spamming battlegrounds too fast for leveling? Fixed, no more xp from battlegrounds. Ok, let’s roll mage/paladin and AoE grind to 60. Nope too fast, if you pull more than 3 mobs, you’re banned. Ok, now mob grinding is the fastest way to 60. Not any more, we just made it so you get 1/2 xp from mob kills and took away rested xp entirely. Where does it end in the name of “skipping content”? There will always be a fastest way to 60 and there will always be people who “skip content” to get to 60 so they can play the content they want to play. Stop enforcing your way of playing the game on others and let people enjoy the game the way they want to. Mind you this is coming from the same person who said they’d banned the auction house if they could, so why should we trust him to implement what the player base actually wants. You’re giving off serious blizzard vibes. “You think you want it, but you don’t”

Reverse this rule or add opt in 2x exp on top of rested once you have a 60 on the same account.

[Grttadls]

While I don't like like this rule change I am glad you are communicating it more clearly now.

The best part of world of warcraft is the endgame raiding, at level 60 sweaty no lifers and casual people with jobs and kids can come and make great memories together.

Back on turtlewow it took at least six months of persuading, mob-tagging, leveling alts to his level and boosting from several people to get my casual buddy up to level 60 so we could raid together.
Not all of it was terrible, ofc we had some fun when leveling but nothing like when we were raiding later on.

I hope you would reconsider your stance on boosting, my fear is that this will alienate my casual friends (who btw often are the ones that leave money in the donation shop) from leveling up.
Sure, we can make alts and get them up to their level but its not like we always have time to play at the same time.

In what world is this being communicated clearly. There are edge cases that aren’t fleshed out and there’s no announcement in game about a rule change. Not gm announcements but yellow text system message announcement saying go check the rules.