NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Ideas for new content, features, and balance changes.
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Erdul
Posts: 12

Re: NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Post#21 » Thu Jun 25, 2026 1:05 pm

Keep faction identity. NO undead paladin ad NO dwarf shaman.

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Scarecrowgotham
Posts: 8

Re: NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Post#22 » Fri Jun 26, 2026 5:14 am

Megroms89 wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 9:32 am
Dzielkus wrote: Sun May 10, 2026 7:23 amNo.
So the undead hunter doesn't bother you? The shamans and the undead bother you.
Hunters have no lore restrictions; they can all hunt and tame beasts.

Paladins and shamans have strict lore restrictions that I believe can't be justified without a disgusting retcon like the one Blizzard implemented.

It simply can't be done, end of discussion.

Octosaur
Posts: 66

Re: NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Post#23 » Fri Jun 26, 2026 7:09 pm

The lore for Paladins and Shamans in WoW is interesting and varies based on the era. Gameplay conceits set to one side both classes fit aesthetically with the races, but not in the same way as they do the natural faction.

Undead fit the Paladin in the same vein as the concept of the Leper Knight (most famously depicted via King Baldwin IV of Jerusalem in Kingdom of Heaven). A Knight who compensates for the decrepitude of his body with the steadfastness of his faith, and who often pursues a righteous death before the malady can reduce him to an invalid.

Dwarven Shamans fit the archetype of the Celtic Druid. Totemic, robed, bearded wisemen in touch with the spirits of the world both living and dead, and channels for the powers of greater, pagan gods.

Forsaken paladins would likely be people who, in their turmoil, have doubled down on their faith in the Light and whose iconography would draw from concepts such as 'the mortification of the flesh', a form of ritualistic self-harm you may have seen in the manga Berserk (or more likely parodied by the chanting monks in Monty Python's Holy Grail) only with the Forsaken the very act of faith itself would be the source of their suffering. They would be well characterised to consider their undead forms as a punishment for the failures of Lordaeron in life and would devote themselves to a life of sacrifice until they have finally earned salvation through death in service of the Light. The only major stumble for this is that the nature of Paladins is their bodies are deeply infused with the Holy Light and this is what makes them more than just armoured priests. Their accumulated bodies laid to rest at Light's Hope sanctified the ground so heavily that even the Lich King could not overpower Tirion beneath it's belltower. Forsaken would not be able to have their bodies be so sanctified, but I don't think that is a bug so much as it is a feature, further playing into their nature as a shadow of their living selves.

Dwarven Shamans would likely be councils of elders who have devoted their lives to hearing the voices of the mountains, storms, ice, magma, and thunder of their great home. Living not in harmony with the elements as do the Horde, but as their masters. Not unkind masters in the vein of Garrosh's Dark Shamans, but certainly a different relationship with the elements than the Horde. The Dwarves of Ironforge carve mountains, brave storms, withstand ice, and take heat from a great pit of magma to fuel their industry. The elements would need to be kept placated, with the Shamans using their powers to blunt the onslaught of the elements of Azeroth. Moreover, my view of Dwarves is that they are deeply tied to their ancestors and their dead. Just as Shadowforge is flush with ancient spirits I'm sure the Dwarves of Ironforge have their own funerary rites which likely predate the Church of the Holy Light, based as it is in Stormwind.

If explored through ideas similar to these there is also no issue with justifying cross-faction violence. The Alliance would never accept the bastardisation of the Light practiced by the hated undead, nor would the zealous undead have time to consider the weak-minded sensibilities of the living who know nothing of the curse afflicting their people nor the penance they are taking to remedy it. The Horde would never accept the Dwarves' haughty approach to the Elements and the Dwarves would have neither the time nor the inclination to break bread with savages.

The conversation should ultimately come down to being one of what creates the best gameplay experience but narratively the sauce is there to cook some really juicy lore.

No to Tauren Paladins though. No matter how hard we cook with Sunwalkers there really is no excuse for seeing Tauren in Judgement armour. The Sunwalker aesthetic is just too different and would be better off being explored as a subset of Druid.

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Crimsonclaws
Posts: 37

Re: NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Post#24 » Sun Jul 12, 2026 12:04 am

Megroms89 wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 9:32 am
Dzielkus wrote: Sun May 10, 2026 7:23 amNo.
So the undead hunter doesn't bother you? The shamans and the undead bother you.
Well actually YES, imo undead hunters were a mistake.
Megroms89 wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 1:28 pm
Montery wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 1:18 pm High Elves and Goblins are both part of Classic Warcraft yes, and just weren't previously playable. Remember the goblins that you saw manning the Zeppelin towers, or the High Elves sprinkled throughout the Alliance zones in the world, like Loch Modan? Turtle understood the difference between giving us access to things that belonged, and were already present in the game world, and creating novel things that disrupt the tone of the setting.
Then we have to add the Vorgens and Draenei, because they were also there, but you couldn't play them.
I would actually support this, and we could give the horde Ogres and and something else to compensate.

Octosaur
Posts: 66

Re: NO to undead paladin, NO to dwarf shaman.

Post#25 » Mon Jul 13, 2026 2:15 pm

Crimsonclaws wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2026 12:04 am
Megroms89 wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 9:32 am
Dzielkus wrote: Sun May 10, 2026 7:23 amNo.
So the undead hunter doesn't bother you? The shamans and the undead bother you.
Well actually YES, imo undead hunters were a mistake.
Megroms89 wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 1:28 pm
Montery wrote: Mon May 11, 2026 1:18 pm High Elves and Goblins are both part of Classic Warcraft yes, and just weren't previously playable. Remember the goblins that you saw manning the Zeppelin towers, or the High Elves sprinkled throughout the Alliance zones in the world, like Loch Modan? Turtle understood the difference between giving us access to things that belonged, and were already present in the game world, and creating novel things that disrupt the tone of the setting.
Then we have to add the Vorgens and Draenei, because they were also there, but you couldn't play them.
I would actually support this, and we could give the horde Ogres and and something else to compensate.
Playable Worgen might be possible but they wouldn't be the Worgen from Cataclysm. Vanilla Worgen are not druid forms gone awry they're more like accursed shadow-demons from an entirely different plane of existence who spread their forces in the form of a shapeshifting curse. Playable Worgen would probably not be good Druids and would probably be more shadow-aligned and stealthy.

Draenei could work for the Alliance nicely but their models would need updating and rigging. The Akama model from WC3 Reforged gives a good idea of what a more playable Draenei model would look like, just minus the weird random spikes.

Ogres fit nicely into the Horde but the gender issue still comes up. The most elegant solution I've seen suggested is the gender option just swaps between 1 head and 2 heads.

There isn't currently a particularly good option to balance with the Horde. Arakkoa would fit very nicely aesthetically but obv don't have a presence on T-WoW Azeroth. If anything is ever done with the Draenei there may be room to work the Arakkoa in as well to some degree since they're thematically a lot more alien to Azeroth than even the Orcs/Ogres are.

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