Revert the dissolvent poison changes.

[Lender]

I was curious if the Octo Wow devs have talked about possibly reverting the change of dissolvent poison, right now it's a annoying quality of life 'nerf' that forces rogues to often change poisons in between pulls.

Some people claimed it was a nerf related to PvP because of how physical damage ignores resistances but an easy fix would be to have dissolvent not work against player targets? That way in PvE a rogue doesn't have to consistently change poisons.

Uhm yeh that's my question/suggestion PPC.

[Denin]

I don't know what they have planned, but i kind of wish for a complete change of how assasination works, or rather how noxious assault works.

It felt like to me on Turtle that they never really knew what to do about rogues.

Regardless, assasination pre patch was overly powerful in early content, but it kind of sucked that all that really mattered were the speed of my weapons.

I could use grey 1.3 speed weps and do more dmg than i would with raid dropped 1.8 speed epics. That felt simply very wrong. I guess this is still the case, though i hear its more balanced now?

With how poisons function now i feel even less will to play the spec, so i kind of agree with you as that doesnt sound very fun.

But i would rather see them make weapon damage play a part, not just attack power like i is now. Maybe even removing the complete reliance on poisons.

Maybe even change the name to mutlilate and emulate the ability from tbc?
It's obvious where the inspiration was from to begin with.

If it wasnt for the gimicy gearing of it i would have really enjoyed it, but that part ruined it for me.

[Galundra]

Agree on reverting changes making sure its only for Pve.

I think assasination depending on AP and poisons is fine, we already have combat to depend on weapon damage. It's good to have variety.

[Rheinwg]

First of all: i support reverting the change, is a very important QOL that is also very important at the early stages of the raiding content.

Maybe even change the name to mutlilate and emulate the ability from tbc?
It's obvious where the inspiration was from to begin with.

If it wasnt for the gimicy gearing of it i would have really enjoyed it, but that part ruined it for me.

No, Noxxious Assault is very diferent. Not using the weapon damage allows the rogue to choose faster weapons, which has synergy with both the vigor talent and the poison procs and makes it different (gearing wise) to the other specs, meanwhile Mutilate was limited to daggers only, which was very limiting (we have plenty of fast weapons that are not daggers here).

If anything, Noxxious takes inspiration from the Eviscerate meta: flat damage with ap scaling that doesnt take weapon damage into account.

The lack of raid weapons is an issue in MC/BWL/AQ40/K40 so Octo should either change some weapons to make them work with the fast weapon meta (Gutgore Ripper for example could be made into a 1.3 epic) or add new ones to complement them (Turtle did add a new dagger and a sword in TMH but other tiers are lacking).

The other option would be to change the way the ability works: Make it so it deals more physical damage with a slower weapon (up to 1.8 or 2.0), that way you preserve the fast weapon meta while opening the door to "slower" weapons option. Would be a trade off, fast weapons provide more poison damage, while slower weapons provide more physical damage, and flametongue already works like that.

[Dzielkus]

Rogue is already top dps as fresh 60s, with low gear psn simply out-dps every other class spec on dungeons/raids.
I don't see any reason to allow one spec be viable for all kind of encounters, like fire mage/warlock/shaman is quite useless on MC.

Imo 1.3 speed rogue psn based was stupid idea from the beginning and Turtle Team saw this - it also killed any other rogue spec both in PvE and PvP.

[Lender]

Rogue is already top dps as fresh 60s, with low gear psn simply out-dps every other class spec on dungeons/raids.
I don't see any reason to allow one spec be viable for all kind of encounters, like fire mage/warlock/shaman is quite useless on MC.

All specs are viable for each encounter. Assassination is actually the worse spec out of the 3 when you have preraid bis. Combat Envenom is actually better, trust me on this please. So saying "oh you are already top dps" doesn't change anything about it being annoying to have to swap before most pulls especially in MC.

But coming back, all specs get 'nerfed' the same way. On elemental fights in MC you swap to disolvent and on humanoid etc. Instant. It's just annoying having to cast for 12 seconds before every pull and if you forget to swap poisons it's GG.

This "nerf" doesn't make on spec stronger or weaker. It just makes the game more annoying to play.

[Headhunter]

If they are going to allow a talent to bypass any sort of progression the bare minimum they should do is completely gut the damage and scaling. Beast master hunter is probably the closest analogue to assassination currently in terms of not really needing any sort of gear to do damage, but beast master hunters are doing paltry damage in comparison to assassination rogues in PvE. A melee DPS class not needing good weapons to deal damage is like a caster not having to care about spell power or mana to deal damage, its blatantly absurd.

[Denin]

First of all: i support reverting the change, is a very important QOL that is also very important at the early stages of the raiding content.

Maybe even change the name to mutlilate and emulate the ability from tbc?
It's obvious where the inspiration was from to begin with.

If it wasnt for the gimicy gearing of it i would have really enjoyed it, but that part ruined it for me.

No, Noxxious Assault is very diferent. Not using the weapon damage allows the rogue to choose faster weapons, which has synergy with both the vigor talent and the poison procs and makes it different (gearing wise) to the other specs, meanwhile Mutilate was limited to daggers only, which was very limiting (we have plenty of fast weapons that are not daggers here).

If anything, Noxxious takes inspiration from the Eviscerate meta: flat damage with ap scaling that doesnt take weapon damage into account.

The lack of raid weapons is an issue in MC/BWL/AQ40/K40 so Octo should either change some weapons to make them work with the fast weapon meta (Gutgore Ripper for example could be made into a 1.3 epic) or add new ones to complement them (Turtle did add a new dagger and a sword in TMH but other tiers are lacking).

The other option would be to change the way the ability works: Make it so it deals more physical damage with a slower weapon (up to 1.8 or 2.0), that way you preserve the fast weapon meta while opening the door to "slower" weapons option. Would be a trade off, fast weapons provide more poison damage, while slower weapons provide more physical damage, and flametongue already works like that.

I feel it plays very similary to mut myself but thats not something that matters.

My only real gripe with the spec is the fact that weapon damage barely matters at all and that it functions perfectly fine with white or grey weapons as long as they are fast.

Giving it epic fluff daggers that barely matter wont change that.

Feels wrong enough to me that i simply refuse to play it, even though i think it's a fun spec to play. It ruins my sense of gear progression to a big degree.

[Rheinwg]

I feel it plays very similary to mut myself but thats not something that matters.

My only real gripe with the spec is the fact that weapon damage barely matters at all and that it functions perfectly fine with white or grey weapons as long as they are fast.

Giving it epic fluff daggers that barely matter wont change that.

Feels wrong enough to me that i simply refuse to play it, even though i think it's a fun spec to play. It ruins my sense of gear progression to a big degree

Is very different to Mut, it doesnt even have the 2 hits and extra combo points aspect of it.

Anyways, here is the thing: how do you achive that without forcing a slow weapon meta, or making the ability just another sinister strike?. You cannot limit it to daggers, and if you use the weapon damage you end up in an scenario where 2 slow weapons would hit extremely hard.

Other than adding a modifier based on weapon speed, the other thing they could do is to make it so it takes the DPS of the weapon to deal damage instead of the damage.

[Denin]

I feel it plays very similary to mut myself but thats not something that matters.

My only real gripe with the spec is the fact that weapon damage barely matters at all and that it functions perfectly fine with white or grey weapons as long as they are fast.

Giving it epic fluff daggers that barely matter wont change that.

Feels wrong enough to me that i simply refuse to play it, even though i think it's a fun spec to play. It ruins my sense of gear progression to a big degree

Is very different to Mut, it doesnt even have the 2 hits and extra combo points aspect of it.

Anyways, here is the thing: how do you achive that without forcing a slow weapon meta, or making the ability just another sinister strike?. You cannot limit it to daggers, and if you use the weapon damage you end up in an scenario where 2 slow weapons would hit extremely hard.

Other than adding a modifier based on weapon speed, the other thing they could do is to make it so it takes the DPS of the weapon to deal damage instead of the damage.

Yeah i don't really know how to fix it. Doesn't change how i feel but i can't think of a good solution. Then again i am not any kind of developer. It's not like i hate the spec either, i just hate how gimicy it feels. But maybe it's a me problem. Shrugs.

If disolvent poison changes were revereted it would need to be nerfed though, as it was on turtle it was far too powerful in early gearing. But maybe thats the best idea, i def agree that using the spec with the way poisons work now is overly annoying.