Levia Files 2: GM Harassment and Censorship

[Yarmum]

Nah you are a cringe clown and your spam messages filling up chat every minute about muh levia are annoying as fuck. You are deranged. This giant wall of text and the 24/7 spam is what terminally online neckbeards do when PvP is disabled.

[Ravel]

I get why #FUCKLEVIA would be moderated, because it’s overly crass...

Nah you are a cringe clown and your spam messages filling up chat every minute about muh levia are annoying as fuck. You are deranged. This giant wall of text and the 24/7 spam is what terminally online neckbeards do when PvP is disabled.

The irony of those two posts in immediate succession is incredibly funny to me. One is moderated and the other is not. I could take older posts from other threads in which people also attack each other in a similar tone as example, but reading those two in immediate succession is just funny.

[Yarmum]

Nice gaslighting but i've seen your guys' ingame messages, far from moderated. this is what happens when absolute weirdos find the target in which to ventilate all their rage out online. The sad part is that everyone else has to read this endless babble. You found your boogeyman. Get a life pls

[Justleggy1]

just received a 24hr mute and a "final warning" (i have never been warned) for a Levia copypasta. seems like the staff team is in full damage control "eliminate all talk of levia from world chat" mode.

i shitpost all sorts of silly stuff all day, all above the belt and not spiteful or malicious towards anybody, but the moment i posted this in world chat, i got smacked

"LYRIC AND PIG Lai Li Ke He Xiao Zhu BANNING PLAYERS Feng Jin Wan Jia LEVIA WORLD BOSS BOOSTERS Shi Jie Shou Ling Zeng Yi TRUE SIGHT Xuan Fu Cha Kan Quan Bu"

besides the point that this is all confirmed to be true, i fail to see how this classifies as harassment worthy of being muted for 24hours, and quote, "nearly being banned."

you can check the logs if you want:

<GM>[Halo] whispers: We have received a significant number of complaints about your chat over the past two days, and after reviewing the logs there is a clear pattern of disruptive behavior. Please tone it down from now on. Keep World Chat focused more on the game and less on real life or inflammatory topics.

Halo then closes the ticket immediately without a chance for me to respond, so I make another ticket, asking for more clarification and for Halo to not close the ticket immediately.

<GM>[Halo] whispers: Ok well you have to take responsibility for your own actions Fruity! I am spending so much time dealing with these complaints. You are not helping the situation.
To <GM>[Halo]: Am I actually able to respond to you now
<GM>[Halo] whispers: "ALL QUEUE AV OR YOU ARE A BITCH ASS PUSSY"
<GM>[Halo] whispers: "QUEUE AV OR YOU ARE A NERD WITH ZERO BITCHES"
<GM>[Halo] whispers: "tell us some more about how you get 0 pussy"
(note: posted this because some meathead called all women dishwashers, not because people weren't joining AV)
<GM>[Halo] whispers: These things are just not welcome in World chat and lots of people complain
To <GM>[Halo]: Wait a second, you mean to tell me that I was reported for saying pussy in world chat? Not the Levia macro? Can we please be honest for a second?
<GM>[Halo] whispers: "tell us some more about how you get 0 pussy"
<GM>[Halo] whispers: "LYRIC AND PIG... BANNING PLAYERS... LEVIA WORLD BOSS BOOSTERS..."
To <GM>[Halo]: Okay, I understand your point, but let me ask you then, I have literally seen you in world chat threaten to hand out 5 minute mutes for people calling each other the N word or other slurs. Now you're 24HR muting me + final warning for what is clearly a tongue in cheek "come on join AV you bastards"?
<GM>[Halo] whispers: Everything you are writing isn't welcome here. You could have easily been banned, but I am trying to give you a warning to please stop!
To <GM>[Halo]: you cannot be fucking serious about this my guy
To <GM>[Halo]: I would also like to remind you that I have not received any prior warnings.
To <GM>[Halo]: If what I was posting was bad, why not just say so?
To <GM>[Halo]: We jump to 24HR mute and then a final warning waits in my mailbox?
To <GM>[Halo]: I understand this server is a fucking PR nightmare for you guys, but you are absolutely not helping your case.
To <GM>[Halo]: Also, just to be clear, if you are now enforcing language like calling people "pussies" in world chat, does that mean you are going to enforce it equally with the same energy?
To <GM>[Halo]: I literally cannot go 5 minutes without someone posting the most horrificly vile shit, and me calling my fellow players "AH COME ON YA PUSSIES LETS GET IT ON IN AV" is the one you go for?
<GM>[Halo] whispers: Fruity, this mute is the result of your own actions, not a single isolated message. We reviewed your chat logs from the past two days alongside numerous player complaints and found a consistent pattern of disruptive behavior in World Chat.
<GM>[Halo] whispers: This action was taken based on that overall pattern, not because of one opinion or one joke. The penalty could have been more severe, but we chose a shorter mute to give you the opportunity to adjust your behavior.
<GM>[Halo] whispers: I know we can't catch everyone! But we want the World chat to feel safe and free, and it will take time, but people need to learn its not a place to spam nasty or inappropriate things
To <GM>[Halo]: I understand there can be problems with some of the things I said, but does that now mean that the other people who post heinous shit in world chat will now have the same 24HR mute final warning punishments handed out?
To <GM>[Halo]: Also, if it's been reported for 2 whole days, why not warn me immediately? Why wait until enough transgressions to punish me severely?
<GM>[Halo] whispers: We have logs that go back to the beginning of the server. Everything everyone says. That is no secret. We are learning too and I know we often miss things, but punishments are being handed out to anyone using the World chat as* their personal playground
To <GM>[Halo]: That's not what I'm asking you, punishments might be handed out, I'm asking you directly if the people who drop slurs and say heinous shit in world chat, will receive the same level of punishment as I did, I.E 24/hr mute and jump to final warning.
To <GM>[Halo]: What I'm also trying to demonstrate to you is that my punishment is wildly disproportionate.
To <GM>[Halo]: I can't help but notice that the punishment for this is wildly disproportionate BECAUSE it concerns Levia, compared to a bunch of other bullshit in world chat that goes by every day.
To <GM>[Halo]: Especially because I WATCHED you BRAG about five minute mutes for people being discriminatory or derogatory. You were literally waving it around like wagging your finger at people, I think the direct quote was "Okay if you guys don't behave I have a lot more five minute mutes to hand out! "
<GM>[Halo] whispers: I could have given you a 20 minute mute, but if you had gone offline it would have made little or no difference. The longer mute was intended to ensure the message is clear and to encourage a change in behavior going forward.
To <GM>[Halo]: The message should be, "Fruity, you are not allowed to post this in world chat," which should be done with a written warning or as you say a 20 minute mute or whatever.
To <GM>[Halo]: Not a 24hr mute with a final warning.
To <GM>[Halo]: Are you jumping the gun because you're tired of running interference for Levia drama? Maybe yes, but you are making a bad call here, especially because you are setting a standard that you fully know you will never be able to enforce
<GM>[Halo] whispers: I've explained the reason for the mute and the decision has been made. You are welcome to disagree with it or appeal it if you wish, and I won't discourage you from doing so. However, it's important to remember that this mute is the result of your own actions and the pattern of behavior we observed. If you follow the chat rules going forward, there shouldn't be any further issues.
<GM>[Halo] whispers: I am genuinely sorry it came to this, and I do understand your frustration. I'd probably feel the same in your position. That said, accepting the outcome, learning from it, and moving on is the easiest way forward. I hope we can put this behind us and not have to have this conversation again.
<GM>[Halo] whispers: I genuinely hope this can be the end of it. Enjoy the game for what it is, have fun with your friends, and try not to get drawn into foul or inappropriate conversations. If you do that, I'm sure we won't need to speak about this again.
<GM>[Halo] whispers: Take care Fruity for now!

the problem isn't even being muted for 24hr, i'll just go play another game or something, the reason why this concerns me is because we're clearly headed into a weird time, what with ollga basically being told "you need to stop talking about this" and myself being told by Halo that he hopes this can be the end of it. we have been directly told by the devs time and time again that the things Levia is on the record of admitting to doing (world boss mafia, AH manipulation, etc) is not against the rules, so for that reason we should combat it in game. well, how are you supposed to combat it if not by exactly what ollga is doing? cut off the #FuckLevia, and just keep charging Levia members triple, they should be totally allowed to advertise this as per the devs own rulings, what kind of weird favoritism is that lol

call me a conspiracy theorist, i also think it's a little suspicious how i incessantly post the most ignorant shit for 2 days straight, and then literally TWO MINUTES after i post the levia macro, i'm hit with a 24hr mute. it's not a smoking gun, but... come on, lol. could i have eaten a mute for saying some of the shit i do? yeah, totally, i'll take it on the chin, but we really need some perspective here.

quote from Halo: "Everything you are writing isn't welcome here. You could have easily been banned, but I am trying to give you a warning to please stop!"

so just keep in mind if you talk about levia you stand the chance of getting banned based on a rule that the devs have openly admitted is up to their personal interpretation i guess. be careful out there gamers

spelling edit and quick add: let me be clear, this is not meant to point any fingers at Halo either. i believe Halo is only doing as they're being told with the tools available to them, and managing this dumpster fire is no doubt a herculean task. it's more so an issue with how the staff team as a whole settle these sorts of disputes and handle issues on a very selective case by case basis.

[Ravel]

just received a 24hr mute and a "final warning" (i have never been warned) for a Levia copypasta. seems like the staff team is in full damage control "eliminate all talk of levia from world chat" mode.

I understand that at the point where you are personally affected, you are, I don't know, agitated? But those are speculations. Lets treat them as such.

i shitpost all sorts of silly stuff all day, all above the belt and not spiteful or malicious towards anybody, but the moment i posted this in world chat, i got smacked

We have received a significant number of complaints about your chat over the past two days

There is already the bias, you assume you got 'smacked' immediately after posting something about the Levia thing. When the GM in question states that they have been going through logs, which simply takes time. Both of these things cannot be true at the same time or can they?

Either you are right, there is a big conspirancy theory or you getting muted right then and there or there was simply a coincidence. Maybe not so much a coincidence, muting a player as a measure makes sense when they are active in world chat, hey maybe your case was in that GMs backlog and they saw you post and got reminded. Neither of these things mean what you take from it. But yes it also means that those two things relate but not in the way you interpret them.

besides the point that this is all confirmed to be true, i fail to see how this classifies as harassment worthy of being muted for 24hours, and quote, "nearly being banned."

I agree with you that there should be a unified approach across GMs on reactions and also on language (threatening a ban should not be done if it is not relevant and if it is there should just be a clear focus on that), if what you write is true that isn't good. That is something that needs to be done better. Though I do not see the point in 5 min or 20 min mutes, those make no sense to me.

call me a conspiracy theorist, i also think it's a little suspicious how i incessantly post the most ignorant shit for 2 days straight, and then literally TWO MINUTES after i post the levia macro, i'm hit with a 24hr mute. it's not a smoking gun, but... come on, lol. could i have eaten a mute for saying some of the shit i do? yeah, totally, i'll take it on the chin, but we really need some perspective here.

Reading this as an outsider, tells me that everything that happened is warranted and there really seems to be a bias on your part. Admitting that you are disrupting chat on purpose and acting the way you describe, well yes it makes perfectly sense to react with a longer mute, again it also makes sense to do that when you are active.

To go one step further it arguably also makes sense for Devs and GMs to be more strict with the whole situation. Do they handle that well: no. Does it make it this big conspirancy theory you are alluding to: no. The server is agitated, harder moderation is appropriate with all the weird bait so many people are belching all over the chat.

So tl;dr: you are affected, after posting "the most ignorant shit for 2 days straight", there are consequences. The first conclusion you draw is essentially: "I did something wrong, but it can't be that baaaaad, because I say it is. Me getting punished now, must be those guys fault. There is a CONSPIRANCY!". Uhm yeah... sorry you are not helping your argument.


Before anyone else wants to argue I am taking a side, I merely comment on what I am reading here. Personally I rather ignore a weird drama macro coming up every few minutes (those happen, usually in regards to ninja-looting) than some of the constant low effort cries for attention some of the more 'edgy' people are spamming.

Aaaaand yes from everything I have read so far it's not a good look, in regards to the Levia situation. Then again I do not immediately belief everything I read.

[Justleggy1]

i completely get what you're saying Ravel, but the point i'm trying to make isn't that i shouldn't have been hit with a mute, what i'm trying to highlight here is that i think it is a little weird to hit me with a 24 hour mute along with a final warning / threat of a ban, considering all i post is stupid and benign harmless shitposting like "why cant paladins use maces on this server?" and etc, when i see people *literally* call each other the n word and shit in chat, and then Halo jokes with "hey, if you guys dont behave, i'm gonna hand out more five minute mutes!"

you see what im getting at fam?

[Pancakes]

There will no doubt be ongoing discussions about what the truth is, what is right and who is wrong. But at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is:

There is no way this looks good for the management team.

And this matters, because this server needs paying customers. Everyone with a toon starts out as a non-paying customer, and converting enough of them to paying customers requires trust.

Kestrel has exercised a great deal of patience and demonstrated excellent communication skills in the last few weeks. On the other hand, the GM team have suffered too many PR disasters in the same time frame. For me to become a paying customer, I need to see better, consistent results going forward.

[Ravel]

i completely get what you're saying Ravel, but the point i'm trying to make isn't that i shouldn't have been hit with a mute, what i'm trying to highlight here is that i think it is a little weird to hit me with a 24 hour mute along with a final warning / threat of a ban, considering all i post is stupid and benign harmless shitposting like "why cant paladins use maces on this server?" and etc, when i see people *literally* call each other the n word and shit in chat, and then Halo jokes with "hey, if you guys dont behave, i'm gonna hand out more five minute mutes!"

you see what im getting at fam?

Look there is nuance to all that, I agree with you that people that engage in that kind of hateful speech should get a severe reaction.

I belief you, that you didn't use n-word yourself, but also I do not think whatever you wrote was as 'benign' as just silly paladin-maces-comments. You don't have to justify or explain any further, at that point I simply do not belief you. You admitted earlier to have written worse, so no. Again, it is also not important what I belief, not my circus.

I also agree with you that GMs should be consistent and a GM reacting to that type of language with some coquette "Teehee behave...!"-reaction, would not be appropriate. I do agree that that kind of inconsistency is bad. Then again, nuance, I do not belief in mutes below 24 hours.

I cannot comment on what you wrote, it doesn't matter what I think, you gotta be honest with yourself. Maybe what you wrote warrants a ban, maybe not. I would not surprised, I've read stuff on world... well oh boy. Certainly on turtle stuff like that wasn't allowed. You gotta accept that people will judge you differently than you judge your own behavior.

In your original post you made the argument "Devs/GMs mute in regards to Levia." now you argue "My punishment was too severe.", very different arguments, then again the inconsistency you describe doesn't read in anyway good and I agree that is a bad look.

Even if your behavior is as you admit yourself: "how i incessantly post the most ignorant shit for 2 days straight" and you probably deserve that mute, especially the way you try to reframe it again and again. It is not wrong for you to highlight the way how that is a bad look. It's a critique to handle communication by the admin team better, warranted critique.

Nuance though, that doesn't explain a conspirancy or why the mute for you was unwarranted.

[Dwarfwarrior]

The carebear treatment of chat is easily this servers weakest point. Private servers didn’t use to be as tightly moderated but here it feels like you are one poorly timed joke away from mutes and bans. I don’t know about the levia stuff but it is clear that overall the moderation is incredibly sporadic and unpredictable. If you are going to moderate tightly at least make the rules more clear because as is it feels completely contingent on which gm happens to be on at that time

[Tassetasse]

The carebear treatment of chat is easily this servers weakest point. Private servers didn’t use to be as tightly moderated but here it feels like you are one poorly timed joke away from mutes and bans.

Agreed. I'm at a loss as to why there is such a focus on moderating world chat banter in the first place. I could speculate, but ironically, that would probably also result in some kind of penalty.
"Keeping world chat friendly", whatever that means, can just be done with mutes. A mute from general, trade, world, LFG, maybe even yell, achieves your goal. Make them longer every time, if you have to. To suspend or even ban someone, especially a 60, for bantz is asinine.

For me to become a paying customer, I need to see better, consistent results going forward.

That is also my takeaway. I'm not spending 160-ish yuros to get my usual QoL when it's that easy to catch a ban. Not to demean the Dev work so far, but Octo's current success largely rests on the work Turtle Devs have done, and the promise that you'll recreate that experience and carry it forward. You do not yet have a track record that backs up your design and policy decisions.