Nightfall community Dispute

[Uggerbugger]

no tbf not giving a tip is kinda shit thing, but doesnt give the crafter the right to hostage/extort as counter action.

Did you even read the chat in the images?

[Knifewrench]

no tbf not giving a tip is kinda shit thing, but doesnt give the crafter the right to hostage/extort as counter action.

Did you even read the chat in the images?

yes i have, did you? clearly the crafter is extorting the guy for 20g? its 100% obvious.
crafter also clearly broke server rules. its considerd scamming according to Octo's rules. why is this gm pulling this pig bshit?
to make it very clear so u can undertand
there was no mention of tip amount required AKA deal was made for whatever buyer would tip (0 is also a tip),
then crafter went NAH BRAH MY AXE till u pay me more then our agreed deal (SCAMMING ACCORDING TO OCTO RULES). to qoute said rule "agreeing to a transaction only to steal the material or attempt to extort a higher price is considerd scamming, and is forbidden on our network"
but pls share u charname so we can blacklist you, if u agree with this kinda shit ur prolly also ninjaing items.

[Uggerbugger]

The rules clearly forbid saying "i will do it for 10g" and then later say "no, you need to pay 20g". It does not clearly forbid wanting payment for a service when no contract is made, which is the case here. Crafter is just as right to assume some sort of payment as "buyer" is to get it for free, aka they are both doing a mistake. Secondly the crafter says "come on, be fair', in which case the response of the "buyer" is to say "do what you think is fair" and then leave the party. In which case crafter does what they think is fair, which is to send a modest fee and the axe.

I do not see a crafter scam here, if any I see a buyer scam. And at the end of the day, they both learned something, and seeing the ban request from "buyer" just baffles me.

[Knifewrench]

The rules clearly forbid saying "i will do it for 10g" and then later say "no, you need to pay 20g". It does not clearly forbid wanting payment for a service when no contract is made, which is the case here. Crafter is just as right to assume some sort of payment as "buyer" is to get it for free, aka they are both doing a mistake. Secondly the crafter says "come on, be fair', in which case the response of the "buyer" is to say "do what you think is fair" and then leave the party. In which case crafter does what they think is fair, which is to send a modest fee and the axe.

I do not see a crafter scam here, if any I see a buyer scam. And at the end of the day, they both learned something, and seeing the ban request from "buyer" just baffles me.

no clearly the crafter refused to hand over the axe to buyer and CHANGED his price after pressing craft. then proceded to extort the buyer for gold. (the buyer is rude af for not tipping but that aint the point here), crafter changed price and holds item hostage (EXTORTING) before getting a sum of money not beforehand mentioned.
end of day crafter deserves a temp ban for breaking server rules.

[Uggerbugger]

You can guess all you want about what crafter would have done if "buyer" did not leave, I look at the facts.

[Shadowmak]

The rules clearly forbid saying "i will do it for 10g" and then later say "no, you need to pay 20g". It does not clearly forbid wanting payment for a service when no contract is made, which is the case here. Crafter is just as right to assume some sort of payment as "buyer" is to get it for free, aka they are both doing a mistake. Secondly the crafter says "come on, be fair', in which case the response of the "buyer" is to say "do what you think is fair" and then leave the party. In which case crafter does what they think is fair, which is to send a modest fee and the axe.

I do not see a crafter scam here, if any I see a buyer scam. And at the end of the day, they both learned something, and seeing the ban request from "buyer" just baffles me.

no clearly the crafter refused to hand over the axe to buyer and CHANGED his price after pressing craft. then proceded to extort the buyer for gold. (the buyer is rude af for not tipping but that aint the point here), crafter changed price and holds item hostage (EXTORTING) before getting a sum of money not beforehand mentioned.
end of day crafter deserves a temp ban for breaking server rules.

What? Did you read the same thing as I did? Where exactly did he refused to give the axe back? In the chat, they were clearly discussing that the crafter expects a reward and the hunter says no I am broke. He doesn't hold it hostage at any point. The hunter then leaves the group and the crafter sends the axe to the email. Where exactly does he says "I will not give you the axe" mate? Nowhere. He was just trying to set up the expectations after the crafting happened which is unfortunate but what else they should've done if the expectations were not set up prior?

Crafter was trying to solve the issue, even admitted that usually he charges 40g for that but in this case since they did not discuss the price he will take a tip (which can be from 0 to infinite, so the hunter could just give him whatever he wants) and fix that they did not set-up the expectations. Hunter was disrespectful to the crafter, left the group like a child and then cried to a GM, on Discord and in forum.

[Knifewrench]

The rules clearly forbid saying "i will do it for 10g" and then later say "no, you need to pay 20g". It does not clearly forbid wanting payment for a service when no contract is made, which is the case here. Crafter is just as right to assume some sort of payment as "buyer" is to get it for free, aka they are both doing a mistake. Secondly the crafter says "come on, be fair', in which case the response of the "buyer" is to say "do what you think is fair" and then leave the party. In which case crafter does what they think is fair, which is to send a modest fee and the axe.

I do not see a crafter scam here, if any I see a buyer scam. And at the end of the day, they both learned something, and seeing the ban request from "buyer" just baffles me.

no clearly the crafter refused to hand over the axe to buyer and CHANGED his price after pressing craft. then proceded to extort the buyer for gold. (the buyer is rude af for not tipping but that aint the point here), crafter changed price and holds item hostage (EXTORTING) before getting a sum of money not beforehand mentioned.
end of day crafter deserves a temp ban for breaking server rules.

What? Did you read the same thing as I did? Where exactly did he refused to give the axe back? In the chat, they were clearly discussing that the crafter expects a reward and the hunter says no I am broke. He doesn't hold it hostage at any point. The hunter then leaves the group and the crafter sends the axe to the email. Where exactly does he says "I will not give you the axe" mate? Nowhere. He was just trying to set up the expectations after the crafting happened which is unfortunate but what else they should've done if the expectations were not set up prior?

Crafter was trying to solve the issue, even admitted that usually he charges 40g for that but in this case since they did not discuss the price he will take a tip (which can be from 0 to infinite, so the hunter could just give him whatever he wants) and fix that they did not set-up the expectations. Hunter was disrespectful to the crafter, left the group like a child and then cried to a GM, on Discord and in forum.

yes and same conclusion was reached on discord. crafter is a scammer going back on his deal and extorting the buyer. buyer is an ass. crafter clearly break server rules and should be reprimended. crafter wasnt trying to sort it he was negotiating with the person he tried to extort for howmuch gold he could extort him. person that got extorted said F ur extortion and ill report yo ass.

[Shadowmak]

no clearly the crafter refused to hand over the axe to buyer and CHANGED his price after pressing craft. then proceded to extort the buyer for gold. (the buyer is rude af for not tipping but that aint the point here), crafter changed price and holds item hostage (EXTORTING) before getting a sum of money not beforehand mentioned.
end of day crafter deserves a temp ban for breaking server rules.

What? Did you read the same thing as I did? Where exactly did he refused to give the axe back? In the chat, they were clearly discussing that the crafter expects a reward and the hunter says no I am broke. He doesn't hold it hostage at any point. The hunter then leaves the group and the crafter sends the axe to the email. Where exactly does he says "I will not give you the axe" mate? Nowhere. He was just trying to set up the expectations after the crafting happened which is unfortunate but what else they should've done if the expectations were not set up prior?

Crafter was trying to solve the issue, even admitted that usually he charges 40g for that but in this case since they did not discuss the price he will take a tip (which can be from 0 to infinite, so the hunter could just give him whatever he wants) and fix that they did not set-up the expectations. Hunter was disrespectful to the crafter, left the group like a child and then cried to a GM, on Discord and in forum.

yes and same conclusion was reached on discord. crafter is a scammer going back on his deal and extorting the buyer. buyer is an ass. crafter clearly break server rules and should be reprimended. crafter wasnt trying to sort it he was negotiating with the person he tried to extort for howmuch gold he could extort him. person that got extorted said F ur extortion and ill report yo ass.

Where did he broke any rules? Where did he said that he wants as many gols as he wants? He clearly said:

[Party] (Duskii): we didnt discuss a price
[Party] (Duskii): was just gonna take what you tip
[Party] (Duskii: I usually charge 30-40g
[Party] [Duskil]: up to you

that doesn't mean he wants as many gold as possible. "up to you" means "give me as much gold as you think is enough".

Sheryl also wrote "I am not in the mood for this, do what you feel is right with it". So crafter did exactly as instructed.

Again, the timeline is:
1. No agreement on the price
2. Craft happened
3. Now they start clarifying on the expectations
4. Sheryl leaves, says "do what u want with it"
5. Crafter doesn't sell it on AH or anything but gives him COD that he thinks he deserves, strengthened by Sheryl's claim to do whatever he wants with it

At no point crafter got to point he was holding him as hostage.

[Knifewrench]

What? Did you read the same thing as I did? Where exactly did he refused to give the axe back? In the chat, they were clearly discussing that the crafter expects a reward and the hunter says no I am broke. He doesn't hold it hostage at any point. The hunter then leaves the group and the crafter sends the axe to the email. Where exactly does he says "I will not give you the axe" mate? Nowhere. He was just trying to set up the expectations after the crafting happened which is unfortunate but what else they should've done if the expectations were not set up prior?

Crafter was trying to solve the issue, even admitted that usually he charges 40g for that but in this case since they did not discuss the price he will take a tip (which can be from 0 to infinite, so the hunter could just give him whatever he wants) and fix that they did not set-up the expectations. Hunter was disrespectful to the crafter, left the group like a child and then cried to a GM, on Discord and in forum.

yes and same conclusion was reached on discord. crafter is a scammer going back on his deal and extorting the buyer. buyer is an ass. crafter clearly break server rules and should be reprimended. crafter wasnt trying to sort it he was negotiating with the person he tried to extort for howmuch gold he could extort him. person that got extorted said F ur extortion and ill report yo ass.

Where did he broke any rules? Where did he said that he wants as many gols as he wants? He clearly said:

[Party] (Duskii): we didnt discuss a price
[Party] (Duskii): was just gonna take what you tip
[Party] (Duskii: I usually charge 30-40g
[Party] [Duskil]: up to you

that doesn't mean he wants as many gold as possible. "up to you" means "give me as much gold as you think is enough".

Sheryl also wrote "I am not in the mood for this, do what you feel is right with it". So crafter did exactly as instructed.

Again, the timeline is:
1. No agreement on the price
2. Craft happened
3. Now they start clarifying on the expectations
4. Sheryl leaves, says "do what u want with it"
5. Crafter doesn't sell it on AH or anything but gives him COD that he thinks he deserves, strengthened by Sheryl's claim to do whatever he wants with it

At no point crafter got to point he was holding him as hostage.

buyer gave 0 tip, wich was up to buyer crafter then refused to hand over item and started extorting the buyers property for gold.

[Shadowmak]

yes and same conclusion was reached on discord. crafter is a scammer going back on his deal and extorting the buyer. buyer is an ass. crafter clearly break server rules and should be reprimended. crafter wasnt trying to sort it he was negotiating with the person he tried to extort for howmuch gold he could extort him. person that got extorted said F ur extortion and ill report yo ass.

Where did he broke any rules? Where did he said that he wants as many gols as he wants? He clearly said:

[Party] (Duskii): we didnt discuss a price
[Party] (Duskii): was just gonna take what you tip
[Party] (Duskii: I usually charge 30-40g
[Party] [Duskil]: up to you

that doesn't mean he wants as many gold as possible. "up to you" means "give me as much gold as you think is enough".

Sheryl also wrote "I am not in the mood for this, do what you feel is right with it". So crafter did exactly as instructed.

Again, the timeline is:
1. No agreement on the price
2. Craft happened
3. Now they start clarifying on the expectations
4. Sheryl leaves, says "do what u want with it"
5. Crafter doesn't sell it on AH or anything but gives him COD that he thinks he deserves, strengthened by Sheryl's claim to do whatever he wants with it

At no point crafter got to point he was holding him as hostage.

buyer gave 0 tip, wich was up to buyer crafter then refused to hand over item and started extorting the buyers property for gold.

buyer gave 0 tip, he then did not refused to hand-over the item but started setting the expectations which both parties failed to set-up prior the craft. Nowhere the hunter said "Sorry mate, I don't have any gold, tip is voluntary, the price was not discussed before hand so I won't give any payment". If the hunter said that and the crafter would still refuse to give him the item THEN it would be holding the item as hostage. But hunter immaturely left the group before this could happen.

It's like you've setup a listing at FaceBook marketplace, failed to put there a price and a guy comes and tells "give it to me for free". What would you do? You'd say "sorry mate, I forgot, the price is XYZ". Correcting a mistake is a normal thing. And that is what the crafter did. So it wasn't refusing to give the item, it was to correct previously not-set expectation.