Blackwing Lair Arrives November 1st

[Delaiwen]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

I agree with your point. Those who expect to obtain PvP gear on the very first day Blackwing Lair (BWL) opens clearly don’t grasp the significant impact this has on PvE. I’ve been running Molten Core (MC) with my Paladin for three months, and I’ve only managed to collect four pieces of Tier 1 (T1) gear—PvP-focused players simply don’t understand how intense the competition for PvE gear really is.

[Knifewrench]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

So ur saying release t2 pvp earlyer on yshaarj to make up for no xfaction buffs? Or we not gonna discuss that elephant in the room, because then pve still would be harder then on nzoth..... , xfaction buffs make u alot stronger then just being 1 tier ahead

[Nandieb]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

Funny how you discard my comment and then continue to prove exactly what I said. The advantage is miniscule at best to non-existent in other cases. And in any case, even the miniscule advantage has been earned by a lot of effort. (20hours per week, over 5-6 weeks)

You are clearly the one unaware what kind of stats are on this tier of PvP gear while engaging in this discussion, yet claiming others to. It’s embarrassing

I believe you are just trolling.

The much bigger problem than some tiny advantage in bwl, is that not only does it give people no reason to PvP anymore, is there is no way of non-raiding PvPers to keep up with PvEers in battlegrounds anymore. Anyone in BWL gear will just stomp blue geared PvPers, who have no means of acquiring upgrades anymore. Maybe that’s exactly the scenario you are trying to create here

[Knifewrench]

Here you are (lock t3 set in this case):
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/item/33471.html
All turtle db, include all t2 and t3 pvp sets with weapons (partisans and executors).

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

Funny how you discard my comment and then continue to prove exactly what I said. The advantage is miniscule at best to non-existent in other cases. And in any case, even the miniscule advantage has been earned by a lot of effort. (20hours per week, over 5-6 weeks)

You are clearly the one unaware what kind of stats are on this tier of PvP gear while engaging in this discussion, yet claiming others to. It’s embarrassing

I believe you are just trolling.

The much bigger problem than some tiny advantage in bwl, is that not only does it give people no reason to PvP anymore, is there is no way of non-raiding PvPers to keep up with PvEers in battlegrounds anymore. Anyone in BWL gear will just stomp blue geared PvPers, who have no means of acquiring upgrades anymore. Maybe that’s exactly the scenario you are trying to create here

Its rly easy just delay wpns and t2 pvp set till 2-4weeks after bwl launch and call it a day. It cant be used for server first and progress then, and pvpers get pvp gear to pvp with.
Caster wpns/heal wpns also a pve upgrade for bwl server first/progress, wich isnt discussed at all.

[Nandieb]

Thank you. I only lacked the link since I didn't remember the names of these sets.

So I found all T2 PvP sets that are related on the bottom of this page:
https://turtledb.cthuly.com/site/spell/14477.html

Let's examine the facts.

T1 pieces have item level of 66.
T2 PvP pieces have item level of 76.
T2 of BWL pieces have item level of 76.

This is comparison of some pieces of Discipline Priest sets: T1 from MC vs T2 PvP.




As you can see, most of T2 PvP items have stronger PvE stats than T1 pieces and additional tons of Stamina on top of that. Note my observation is based on 1 spec so far and there are 26 more.

But what about BWL's T2 vs T2 PvP? Here generally BWL's T2 pieces are stronger for PvE but PvP set has tons of Stamina again. But apparently, there DO exist some pieces that are better in PvP set. For example legs for Disc Priest:




It's also worth mentioning that some PvP items DO have hit - contrary to what some people here claimed. "Some" is important word, Disc's PvP set doesn't have any hit but I think it's due to our talents that allow extra hit. I saw Hunter's boots that have some Agi and 1% hit.


My conclusion is the following.

If you think it's fair to allow these items to exist on day 1 of BWL, you are insane. On day 1 everyone has most of BiS gear on level of T1. Even in Vanilla these items weren't as good if we take into account DPS stats. And in Vanilla only small minority of people had access to this gear on BWL release - on Octo this isn't such small minority.
However, I don't think there is an urgent need to delay it up to ES release. I still think December would be better month for the release - after 4 weeks at least the power spike won't be as giantic as on day 1 access.

It seems I'm the only sane person in this discussion and you all want to turn me into idiot. If 100 people support one thesis, how many people are needed to prove the thesis wrong? 101? No. Just 1 person. So stop this bullshit because I start to believe I'm not discussing with honest people but rather some kind of lobbists who cry on the forum just to benefit for their own character.

Funny how you discard my comment and then continue to prove exactly what I said. The advantage is miniscule at best to non-existent in other cases. And in any case, even the miniscule advantage has been earned by a lot of effort. (20hours per week, over 5-6 weeks)

You are clearly the one unaware what kind of stats are on this tier of PvP gear while engaging in this discussion, yet claiming others to. It’s embarrassing

I believe you are just trolling.

The much bigger problem than some tiny advantage in bwl, is that not only does it give people no reason to PvP anymore, is there is no way of non-raiding PvPers to keep up with PvEers in battlegrounds anymore. Anyone in BWL gear will just stomp blue geared PvPers, who have no means of acquiring upgrades anymore. Maybe that’s exactly the scenario you are trying to create here

Its rly easy just delay wpns and t2 pvp set till 2-4weeks after bwl launch and call it a day. It cant be used for server first and progress then, and pvpers get pvp gear to pvp with.
Caster wpns/heal wpns also a pve upgrade for bwl server first/progress, wich isnt discussed at all.

I‘d be ok with that middle-ground.

At the same time I have to say the server-first argument is so dumb. Imagine making a serious attempt on that and not considering grinding battlegrounds for at least a week to get a weapon. It also has literally no consequences for the average raider

Most specs gain little to no advantage from epic pvp set over t1, and have to invest a lot of time for it. I think that’s fair, but I personally don’t care about BWL prog at all, I have done that too many times

[Knifewrench]

Funny how you discard my comment and then continue to prove exactly what I said. The advantage is miniscule at best to non-existent in other cases. And in any case, even the miniscule advantage has been earned by a lot of effort. (20hours per week, over 5-6 weeks)

You are clearly the one unaware what kind of stats are on this tier of PvP gear while engaging in this discussion, yet claiming others to. It’s embarrassing

I believe you are just trolling.

The much bigger problem than some tiny advantage in bwl, is that not only does it give people no reason to PvP anymore, is there is no way of non-raiding PvPers to keep up with PvEers in battlegrounds anymore. Anyone in BWL gear will just stomp blue geared PvPers, who have no means of acquiring upgrades anymore. Maybe that’s exactly the scenario you are trying to create here

Its rly easy just delay wpns and t2 pvp set till 2-4weeks after bwl launch and call it a day. It cant be used for server first and progress then, and pvpers get pvp gear to pvp with.
Caster wpns/heal wpns also a pve upgrade for bwl server first/progress, wich isnt discussed at all.

I‘d be ok with that middle-ground.

At the same time I have to say the server-first argument is so dumb. Imagine making a serious attempt on that and not considering grinding battlegrounds for at least a week to get a weapon. It also has literally no consequences for the average raider

Most specs gain little to no advantage from epic pvp set over t1, and have to invest a lot of time for it. I think that’s fair, but I personally don’t care about BWL prog at all, I have done that too many times

Thats why i pref 1 or 2 weeks delay maxx, keep it away from server firsts (idc about em but some do) , and us pvpers get our pvp gear to pvp with (1 or 2 weeks we can wait, doesnt matter much)

[Krokodil]

The best proposal would be to increase the cost of the 280,000 HP PvP set upon the release of BWL.

[Doaksie]

What works best for the pve realm doesn't always work best for the pvp realm.

I don't think a "one size fits all" approach for both servers is always the answer. We've seen it with the need for 2x xp and we're seeing it again with this issue re: pvp gear.

[Octto]

"I never farmed consumables in preparation for BWL release. Please disable all consumables from being used in raids until Emerald Sanctum so it will be fair to me!"

[Cliff]

January? Dafaque bro
Isnt dat too long to wait? December would be a reasonable compromise