A response to "Twinks ruin Pvp"

[Pirtest]

So it comes off really tone-deaf and rather malicious to shrug that off and say "Oh well the one not twinking is actually the problem because he doesn't want to put effort into it"

This is honestly the same as an athlete taking steroids and drugs in order to have an advantage over the competition complaining that he's looked down upon by those who choose to compete without taking them. "Well, they could take steroids too, but they're not competitive or good enough at the sport lol".

[Neeps123]

Battlegrounds / arena should just have item power and rank banding, with the queue restarting if near peers can't be found. Then twinks (I prefer the term munchkin tbh) can still get a chance to roll on noobs, and people seeking a fair fight have their fair chance to do so.

I actually intend to get all my characters to 39, be a douche in battlegrounds to farm honor and level crafting professions etc and then gradually get everyone to 60. It is annoying asf getting melted and having your team quit because overgeared people are queuing as a team...

I get both sides of the argument, but an overhaul of the queue would be good all round. Soft cap on items above a certain power would also be an option, so overgearing gets a benefit, but not total asymmetry.

[Neeps123]

Or devs could just give a sane bracket for BGs instead of 10-19 or 20-29 it should be within 3 levels, again could default if the queue fails then requeue within a larger bracket. but whatever, neither of these ideas are going to happen.

[Ocdonotsteal]

It's a rough conversation to have. There are a lot of potential fixes that might work. Maybe. On a more populated server. Potentially.

On the other side of the coin, as someone who has twinked and as someone who has been rolled by twinks, I do feel like a lot of this conversation ignores the time, effort, and gold that goes into twinking, and the active snapshot of that character effectively removing further progression from that character.

Does someone who puts less care and attention into pvp hoping to gain cheap rewards and progression towards pve deserve to have a handicap handed out towards someone purpose built for it? Not to mention any handicap/restriction undermines any technical aspect put into the actual execution of pvp. At some point it does come off as "I deserve to win, and here's why:" kind of speech. Who gets to decide where the line is drawn? Vanilla is already inherently unbalanced and that's a part of the fun of it, in my humble opinion. Those that enter with a handicap of challenges or gear shouldn't have the ability to apply a handicap to those more prepared, that's a very WotlK+ mentality.

[Neeps123]

I think it essentially boils down to "if it's broke don't fix it, because it was already broken". There are plenty of changes and tweaks that would improve the experience for the majority without ruining for the minority, but any change is bad change to a certain type of people who will cry and bitch about it non stop because "it has always been this". Which is inherently an issue within 'Classic+' space because one side sees it as preserving whatever Classic is/was and another side sees it as improving Classic, whatever that may mean (which is obviously open to interpretation). Which is why I think only making changes to queue and matchmaking strike a balance: if there is the chance to get a balance team then great, if not you have the standard bunch of low levels against twinks (maybe it is already like this, doh!)

[Ocdonotsteal]

I think it essentially boils down to "if it's broke don't fix it, because it was already broken". There are plenty of changes and tweaks that would improve the experience for the majority without ruining for the minority, but any change is bad change to a certain type of people who will cry and bitch about it non stop because "it has always been this". Which is inherently an issue within 'Classic+' space because one side sees it as preserving whatever Classic is/was and another side sees it as improving Classic, whatever that may mean (which is obviously open to interpretation). Which is why I think only making changes to queue and matchmaking strike a balance: if there is the chance to get a balance team then great, if not you have the standard bunch of low levels against twinks (maybe it is already like this, doh!)

It runs deeper than petty shit flinging about who is louder about complaining. To define what is broken, what isn't broken has to be defined as well, and not much is going in on that side of the conversation. Who is qualified to decide that? Bias enters every time. Bias has entered your post, and discredits any honest notion you might have. Players are biased because they want more reward so neither side of the fence holds much merit in that discussion. A developer is biased towards the functionality of the game, any change that has even the slightest remote impact outside of pvp instantly enters the realm of impossibility. Even worse if they don't have current hands on experience and are only listening to the vested interest of those lobbying for change that isn't impartial. If those are discluded, laissez faire is the simplest answer. After all, there is no uneven advantage presented. All players have the same capacity to achieve the same power level. Who has the authority to dictate otherwise without entering a spiral of course correction we have already seen play out in real time with the actual retail servers?

[Digitalmamba]

So i've been leveling here and about to start doing bg's. I was told you couldn't xp lock in bgs here but reading this thread it appears I was told wrong. Anyone know of a server that doesn't allow this? Every server i'm on with xp lock in bg's ends up killing most bg's and pointless to do while leveling. Anyone who could point me to a different server?

[Xerxia]

Simpliest solution is to have a twink only bg. Basically if your ilevel(or however they can measure your gear/enchants) is above a certain amount for the level bracket you go into a twink only bg. And ya theres gonna be people saying "theres not enough twinks for fast bgs!". Simple: lower your gear to get back into normal bg. Wanna be a tryhard? You go to the tryhard bg. Wanna actually have fair pvp? Use normal gear in the regular bg.

[Ocdonotsteal]

Simpliest solution is to have a twink only bg. Basically if your ilevel(or however they can measure your gear/enchants) is above a certain amount for the level bracket you go into a twink only bg. And ya theres gonna be people saying "theres not enough twinks for fast bgs!". Simple: lower your gear to get back into normal bg. Wanna be a tryhard? You go to the tryhard bg. Wanna actually have fair pvp? Use normal gear in the regular bg.

Maybe try harder instead of aiming for mediocrity. You're in a competitive space with nothing to lose and rewards to gain. PvP is never going to be fair.