Skipping trash in raids has gone too far

[Zelot]

Hey there,

im totally okay with leaving some trash behind while hugging a wall or time some pat movement, but i really despise the big trash skips with hunter/pala shenanigans. I dont think it´s good for the game. If you wanna compete with other raids, you have to do it. All the pressure is on one or two persons to get it right. If they fail, blame is on them and often enough it´s not even their fault. Game just does things sometimes.

BWL has a million skips and it´s just annoying. Trash behind vael? skippable. Entire supression room? skippable. 90% of trash after firemaw? skippable



I wanna slay stuff, not run around chugging invis pots and wait for the hunter to be ready to do his thing.

AQ40 has some skips especially the trash before satura. Naxx is okay, nothing major going on there. K40 has the tower skip.

So either setup some rules for speedrunning or just make stuff raidwide combat. I dont know.

I just think it´s bad game design and needs to be looked at. Whats your opinion?

[Zvyrhol]

Yes, skips are bad design.

I don't think removal of skips is necessary though. These concern mainly BWL and AQ40. Turtle WoW at least buffed trinket from AQ40 trash that was usually skipped so some guilds clear them anyway. BWL trash drops some very good items.

If I was in power here, I would rather add some new items or buff existing ones from the trash people skip so people are left with choice. After all, these BWL and AQ40 skips have always been part of the game and removing them is controversial. But in new raids in the future, Octo should design new areas without possibility of skip.

[Defiant]

Whats your opinion?

My opinion is that all of the stuff you referenced isn't even accessible on Octo yet.

That aside... My opinion would be the same as it is for the crowd that want to get rid of addons. Be the change you want to see. Start hosting your own raids where you don't skip those trash packs. Just like the people who think addons should be removed from the game could create guilds where they gather others who don't want to use addons together. But the thing is, the people that complain about these types of things never do that, right? You just want to change how other people play when it doesn't actually impact you. It's a mind set that I see more and more these days and something about it bothers me to be honest.

So like, you want other people to organize the raids, but you want them to do the raids the way you want to do the raids? Hmm. Again there's a very easy solution to this; host your own raids.

In my opinion the real problem is people making demands like this has gone too far. Everyone demands everything be done the way they want it to be done. It's very narcissistic to be honest.

So either setup some rules

Or just ask the raid leader what their plans are and don't join them if they're playing the game a way you dislike? That's always an option, right? You don't need to force the entire damn server to play the way you think the game should be played. Again, it's narcissism.

[Defiant]

I would rather add some new items or buff existing ones from the trash people skip so people are left with choice.

This is generally how I would tackle the problem if I even saw a problem with this in the first place. Don't punish others, create incentives for them to play the way you think they should be playing.

But personally I'd be against them managing things like this, I don't think there's a problem with one of the most popular sets of raids that has ever existed in any MMO ever made.

[Knifewrench]

Seeing skipping trash in scholo was deemed banneable offense, id say skipping raid trash should be bannable aswell.

[Zelot]

Whats your opinion?

My opinion is that all of the stuff you referenced isn't even accessible on Octo yet.

That aside... My opinion would be the same as it is for the crowd that want to get rid of addons. Be the change you want to see. Start hosting your own raids where you don't skip those trash packs. Just like the people who think addons should be removed from the game could create guilds where they gather others who don't want to use addons together. But the thing is, the people that complain about these types of things never do that, right? You just want to change how other people play when it doesn't actually impact you. It's a mind set that I see more and more these days and something about it bothers me to be honest.

So like, you want other people to organize the raids, but you want them to do the raids the way you want to do the raids? Hmm. Again there's a very easy solution to this; host your own raids.

In my opinion the real problem is people making demands like this has gone too far. Everyone demands everything be done the way they want it to be done. It's very narcissistic to be honest.

So either setup some rules

Or just ask the raid leader what their plans are and don't join them if they're playing the game a way you dislike? That's always an option, right? You don't need to force the entire damn server to play the way you think the game should be played. Again, it's narcissism.

i dont even know what to reply here. Please keep your narcissism diagnostics to yourself maybe?? Is that how you approach people? for real?

im talking about the competetive raid meta, not your average joe´s random 2.5 hour pug with boss explanations, about rules, under which conditions logs are valid for speedrunning for example.
I don´t think it´s "narcissitic" to ask for more guidelines on how these encounters should be played. Because dragging 200 whelps and 50 elite around vaels room, while you kill another boss is just stupid. This shouldnt even be in the game. It was never meant to be.

[Defiant]

This shouldnt even be in the game. It was never meant to be.

And yet if you listen to the rationale of the actual Classic developers, the people that designed the things you're complaining about, they acknowledge that player creativity in solving these problems shouldn't be punished which is why they didn't "fix" these things back during Vanilla. So no, you're objectively wrong and even the people that designed it disagree with you. I'd personally argue that many of these trash skips are actually designed into the game, but that's a whole other conversation.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o0dR_AaEstw

The last 10 seconds is the most relevant, but yeah, unless it's an actual game breaking bug they don't think these kinds of things should be fixed, and yes he was talking about boss mechanics but lets be real skipping trash is going to be considered the same territory; outsmarting the developers.

The thing is though-- you can go make your own guild, and host your own raids with your own rules. No one is stopping you from that. Again, you want to create rules to control how other people play when you're entirely capable of just hosting your own raids and doing it the way you want. That's what irks me.

Is that how you approach people? for real?

I approach people the way they deserve to be approached. Narcissists that want to create rules to control other people deserve to be told to fuck off in the most unkindly way possible. There's too much of this shit in our society nowadays. So yeah, I'm happy to be the asshole in this scenario, someone has to tell you to mind your own business.

[Defiant]

Seeing skipping trash in scholo was deemed banneable offense, id say skipping raid trash should be bannable aswell.

Skipping trash is not a bannable offense, glitching through terrain is. They're not the same thing and even you aren't stupid enough to believe that.

[Zelot]

Holy shit you have to be the most unsufferable person. It´s really cringe. Im gonna stop this here, you are not interested in having a conversation.

[Knifewrench]

Holy shit you have to be the most unsufferable person. It´s really cringe. Im gonna stop this here, you are not interested in having a conversation.

He is most known shitposter