Please dont balance classes baselines for PvP reasons

[Kairion]

Can someone explain why despite the forums being split, we still have PvE folks coming onto our forums?

This isn't the General PvP forum for Octwow — Kestrel made it clear — this is the Y'Shaarj forum.

But very nice of you folks to attempt to treat us like second rate citizens in our own house.

This thread was created 2 days before the Split of the suggestion forum, and it was sorted to this subsection by mods, not the OP.

Fair but we're still being treated like second rate citizens by many PvErs here. We genuinely shouldn't have the same balance as Y'Shaarj has no shamans/paladins and most of the game is balanced around having both.

Having a true distinction between servers would actually be more healthy to address the different issues we have.

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

[Knifewrench]

This thread was created 2 days before the Split of the suggestion forum, and it was sorted to this subsection by mods, not the OP.

Fair but we're still being treated like second rate citizens by many PvErs here. We genuinely shouldn't have the same balance as Y'Shaarj has no shamans/paladins and most of the game is balanced around having both.

Having a true distinction between servers would actually be more healthy to address the different issues we have.

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

Imo go back to ur own forums, ur not on pvp server.

[Kairion]

Fair but we're still being treated like second rate citizens by many PvErs here. We genuinely shouldn't have the same balance as Y'Shaarj has no shamans/paladins and most of the game is balanced around having both.

Having a true distinction between servers would actually be more healthy to address the different issues we have.

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

Imo go back to ur own forums, ur not on pvp server.

Rich coming from the goblin that loves the PvE server so much, that wants a mandatory 75% exp reduction for that realm, but congrats of being my first ignored person in this forum <3

[Knifewrench]

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

Imo go back to ur own forums, ur not on pvp server.

Rich coming from the goblin that loves the PvE server so much, that wants a mandatory 75% exp reduction for that realm, but congrats of being my first ignored person in this forum <3

Im just doing exact same thing as pve server people consistently been doing when we ask for sonething for our server, if u dont understand that.... brah. , i only play pvp realm, and idc about whats done on pve server itself. Its very obvious post to directly show how you guys consistently act.

[Berdal]

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

B.A.S.E.D.

They don't seem to get that PvP happens on N'Zoth and PvE happens on Y'Shaarj. They use power/domination tactics and PvP-gate the conversation.

[Vex]

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

Imo go back to ur own forums, ur not on pvp server.

Rich coming from the goblin that loves the PvE server so much, that wants a mandatory 75% exp reduction for that realm, but congrats of being my first ignored person in this forum <3

If you don't understand sarcasm then idk what to tell you man

[Knifewrench]

Fair but we're still being treated like second rate citizens by many PvErs here. We genuinely shouldn't have the same balance as Y'Shaarj has no shamans/paladins and most of the game is balanced around having both.

Having a true distinction between servers would actually be more healthy to address the different issues we have.

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

B.A.S.E.D.

They don't seem to get that PvP happens on N'Zoth and PvE happens on Y'Sharaaj. They use power/domination tactics and PvP-gate the conversation.

No we just ask you to use your own forums

[Vex]

Fair but we're still being treated like second rate citizens by many PvErs here. We genuinely shouldn't have the same balance as Y'Shaarj has no shamans/paladins and most of the game is balanced around having both.

Having a true distinction between servers would actually be more healthy to address the different issues we have.

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

B.A.S.E.D.

They don't seem to get that PvP happens on N'Zoth and PvE happens on Y'Sharaaj. They use power/domination tactics and PvP-gate the conversation.

PvP should be gatekept by pvpers. All of the points you guys make make zero sense once you take into account real pvp situations which says it all. It says you guys don't pvp enough to make any valid argument, claim about anything therefore you should have zero input on the state of pvp. As much as you keep seething we will continue gatekeeping and posting whatever makes you seethe.

[Knifewrench]

Frankly, no you shouldn't have differing balance. Bad design choices that are made in regards to high end raiding (and all PvE changes are made primarily for that environment) are not just hurting PvP, but also make the classes vastly too powerful at levelling, farming and other aspects that don't even impact PvP.
PvP is just the aspect where bad design shows most.
Additionally, while the PvP server Exists, it is not the only way to consume PvP content. Some people like arena or bg pvp, but don't enjoy the possibility of getting jumped anywhere at any time by a bored rogue. Splitting balance along server lines leaves PvP shitty for those players.
But most Importantly, the devs dont have limitless resources. As a business they will have to allocate resources wherever they make money. And just because there are more players enjoying PvE, thats where you can expect most of their focus to go towards. Splitting into two separate versions that have to individually be maintained is doubled work for frankly not much financial incentive.

Unfortunately, both PvE and PvP players have in the past displayed "new toy syndrome" and played/endorsed some of the worst design choices ever made, just because they personally benefited from them.

When Kara40 comes out, there might be genuine action required since these bosses are genuinely tuned to a 9 class raid, but all PvE content before that is perfectly doable on the PvP realm without shaman / paladin respectively. In the meantime, what we need is class/gear/profession changes that respect both the existence of PvP and PvE at all levels.

B.A.S.E.D.

They don't seem to get that PvP happens on N'Zoth and PvE happens on Y'Sharaaj. They use power/domination tactics and PvP-gate the conversation.

PvP should be gatekept by pvpers. All of the points you guys make make zero sense once you take into account real pvp situations which says it all. It says you guys don't pvp enough to make any valid argument, claim about anything therefore you should have zero input on the state of pvp. As much as you keep seething we will continue gatekeeping and posting whatever makes you seethe.

Nah they can discuss their pvp issues, on the correct place, pve server forum. Unless its about pvo balance for pvp server, its not a hard concept to understand. Its also pointless for us to discuss things like pala loot dropping for horde on the pve server realm, or issues concerning non xfaction raiding.

[Yotca]

B.A.S.E.D.

They don't seem to get that PvP happens on N'Zoth and PvE happens on Y'Sharaaj. They use power/domination tactics and PvP-gate the conversation.

Should I make a compilation of your quotes — miscontrued — mischaracterized — outright lies?

You talk about power/domination tactics, but no one has ever done anything of the sort. If I expose you for the name-calling sanctimonious, argument lacking fraud — that you are — is that this new power/domination crap you've recently come up with ; or me exposing that you're arguably the biggest hypocrite on the forums and that you refer to others in derogatory terms in attempts to prevent them from interacting and debating without ever having to address their actual arguments?

A couple hours ago you used the term witch hunt when deflecting from how you constantly back up Defiant regardless of him stringing together legible sentences with an actual point or not, constantly resorting to ad hominems and stifling discussion.

We've already exposed that you not only aren't 60 after multiple months of play time but that you also don't even have a character on the PvP server.

You and Defiant are not playing devil's advocate but just being obtuse and have adamantly argued against things you don't even begin to understand, as you've never experienced them.

You've still never addressed points about the PvP server suffering more from changes like reduced BG xp — no dungeon mob tagging which also means no easy alt leveling as we're not allowed to multibox outside — the fact that we can have level 60's kill our level 1's — the fact that I had to argue to have multiboxing for summoning, crafting and bank alts restored ; else it was bannable — the fact that transfers were promised from PvE but never happened — the fact that they delayed transfers from HC to PvP for so long that certain players took the oath and are permanently stuck there — or just the fact that our base realm condition means we can lose several hours getting camped instead of your own incompetence being the only thing from preventing you from leveling.

The PvP realm is tight knit. There are very few players who don't know each other and no one knows you. We've asked around in guilds, discords and in-game. There is a grand total of 500 lvl 60 players and they're mainly spread across 5 guilds with nearly half of them belonging to the same people — the actual level 60 population is closer to 300-350 ; most of us know each other and as said multiple times, officers and guild masters of said guilds have expressed their support for changes that would solve the aforementioned issues namely x2 xp.

You called us vocal minorities multiple times without ever being present on the server.

Yet you still constantly argued against x2 xp as if you actually played the PvP realm and claimed you knew multiple people against it.

Now you claim we use power/domination tactics as a last ditch resort to avoid accountability.

What a joke you are...