Y'shaarj: no point to queue BGs as a new fresh 60

[Spicyahi]

Evidence: current gear disparities based off pvp rank

it's clear as fucking day horde win 99% of BGs else the rank spread would be mostly equal.

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Well gear disparity is a solvable issue so what exactly are you saying?

[Lavida]

teams should be created with respect to gear score and healers.

if system places 1 big gear score person in team 1, than put 2nd big gear score person in team 2. Distrubute healers equally.

But those require changes in database, devs need to set gear score of each item and keep it in database, maybe in the future, i dont think game has such mechanics right now.

Awarding a little amount of honor / exp could lure some people into queueing.

[Defiant]

teams should be created with respect to gear score and healers.

if system places 1 big gear score person in team 1, than put 2nd big gear score person in team 2. Distrubute healers equally.

But those require changes in database, devs need to set gear score of each item and keep it in database, maybe in the future, i dont think game has such mechanics right now.

Awarding a little amount of honor / exp could lure some people into queueing.

Here's the thing, you already get XP ( plus isnt this about level 60 balance? ) and if you lose the BG you get way more honor than you would if you were actually playing Vanilla. Losing teams used to get even less. The suggestion is a good one, and its been implemented. If you get the same amount of honor from winning as losing that will 100% lead to certain people just slacking off because what's it even matter. Hell I could see it leading to people intentionally throwing matches so that they end as quickly as possible in order to maximize honor gain per hour.

Regarding gear score matchmaking like, it would probably increase queue times substantially. I see a lot of potential issues with a system like that but with the server as small as it is the queue times would probably be the biggest issue. Especially if the BGs arent cross faction and it does seem like the PVP server is very much against cross faction BGs and hey I feel the same way. But that inherently will make queues slower.

As things stand the groups are being made as fast as they can and the queue times are still pretty slow, if you start balancing for gear score and healers then what if 2 alliance healers and 4 horde healers are signed up, so the horde healers just get an hour long queue etc? I get where youre coming from but the system even though it feels flawed was one of if not the most successful PVP systems in any MMO. People loved it as it was. It doesnt need to be "fixed". Matches are never going to feel balanced and that is for better or worse part of the design. Like if the population was large enough I could see matching based off something like gear score and taking consideration for healers possibly work-- but gear only goes so far. A good PVP player can mop the floor with an average player even if the gear favors the average player. You cant really balance for that. Thats especially true on Turtle because a lot of that higher end skill comes down to knowledge. Knowing what you opponents can do and how to counter them is huge and let's be real with all the class changes here I feel that the knowledge gap is way bigger than it would be on Classic. On Classic a huge percentage of PVPers know what most classes are capable of because weve had 20 years of knowledge shared online. On Octo there are a lot of changes and let's be real the majority of players arent aware of every single one of those changes.

Anyways sorry for the wall of text but these issues arent simple to discuss. Theres a lot of nuance that I feel is being ignored.

And to the people telling me to butt out of the conversation because I play on the PVE realm-- I still love PVP and will be spending a considerable amount of my time in BGs so I do in fact have a horse in this race. Changes made to PVP balance and BGs will definitely impact me.

[Knifewrench]

teams should be created with respect to gear score and healers.

if system places 1 big gear score person in team 1, than put 2nd big gear score person in team 2. Distrubute healers equally.

But those require changes in database, devs need to set gear score of each item and keep it in database, maybe in the future, i dont think game has such mechanics right now.

Awarding a little amount of honor / exp could lure some people into queueing.

So i qeue naked and then equip my gear once in the bg? Also this is about yshaarj how u gonna split heals and gear across teams ? U want xfaction?

[Knifewrench]

So ur saying buff paladins because even with 50% of the bg being paladin we got rolled? While micayah is out there 3v1ing people ., also at 60 the amount of pala and shaman players are same.

Skill issue

True but his argument makes no sense?

[Spicyahi]

I'm saying his argument comes from having a skill issue and needing to play the game more. He's just mad he's losing, so instead of trying (trinket swaps, consumes, communication, peeling, etc.), he's crying to get shaman nerfed. It's selfish, and it's annoying. I know he can handle himself better than posting scoreboards of stomps and thinking that's conclusive.

[Knifewrench]

I'm saying his argument comes from having a skill issue and needing to play the game more. He's just mad he's losing, so instead of trying (trinket swaps, consumes, communication, peeling, etc.), he's crying to get shaman nerfed. It's selfish, and it's annoying. I know he can handle himself better than posting scoreboards of stomps and thinking that's conclusive.

I replyd to a hordie complaing about paladins

[Nseternal]

I'm saying his argument comes from having a skill issue and needing to play the game more. He's just mad he's losing, so instead of trying (trinket swaps, consumes, communication, peeling, etc.), he's crying to get shaman nerfed. It's selfish, and it's annoying. I know he can handle himself better than posting scoreboards of stomps and thinking that's conclusive.

it's not skill issue lol, there's multiple people playing different classes all complaining about how OP shaman is. the only people defending shaman as not OP are horde players and shaman players.

should i flood the forums with daily and constant scoreboard screenshots of horde stomps where at least 1 shaman has the top K/D ratio?

[Lavida]

teams should be created with respect to gear score and healers.

if system places 1 big gear score person in team 1, than put 2nd big gear score person in team 2. Distrubute healers equally.

But those require changes in database, devs need to set gear score of each item and keep it in database, maybe in the future, i dont think game has such mechanics right now.

Awarding a little amount of honor / exp could lure some people into queueing.

So i qeue naked and then equip my gear once in the bg? Also this is about yshaarj how u gonna split heals and gear across teams ? U want xfaction?

I don't know man, maybe developers prevent switching gear inside battlegrounds i.e. you can only play with what you q with, or they can also check inventory items' score, everything is possible but not really my job.

As a warrior, I won't queue to entertain paladins, shamans, mages etc. I am around 42 level, at max I get like 10-15k exp and that costs me more than 30minutes / queueing, standing in front of NPC, waiting and than losing probably ( 5k exp at best ). Instead, I can kill random mobs which are 5 level lower than me and can grind more than 15k exp.

I would recommend making queue possible when people around the world, Queue by button, not from NPC, and teleport back where you are. Only than I could consider queueing . Still worst than grinding lower level mobs.

Maybe battlegrounds should give you more exp if you got 60 level main already and alting, so people who want to have profession slave alts can get into bgs. I don't know, many solutions, but long games with little amount of exp, unbalanced classes are really not for me.

[Lavida]

teams should be created with respect to gear score and healers.

if system places 1 big gear score person in team 1, than put 2nd big gear score person in team 2. Distrubute healers equally.

But those require changes in database, devs need to set gear score of each item and keep it in database, maybe in the future, i dont think game has such mechanics right now.

Awarding a little amount of honor / exp could lure some people into queueing.

Here's the thing, you already get XP ( plus isnt this about level 60 balance? ) and if you lose the BG you get way more honor than you would if you were actually playing Vanilla. Losing teams used to get even less. The suggestion is a good one, and its been implemented. If you get the same amount of honor from winning as losing that will 100% lead to certain people just slacking off because what's it even matter. Hell I could see it leading to people intentionally throwing matches so that they end as quickly as possible in order to maximize honor gain per hour.

Regarding gear score matchmaking like, it would probably increase queue times substantially. I see a lot of potential issues with a system like that but with the server as small as it is the queue times would probably be the biggest issue. Especially if the BGs arent cross faction and it does seem like the PVP server is very much against cross faction BGs and hey I feel the same way. But that inherently will make queues slower.

As things stand the groups are being made as fast as they can and the queue times are still pretty slow, if you start balancing for gear score and healers then what if 2 alliance healers and 4 horde healers are signed up, so the horde healers just get an hour long queue etc? I get where youre coming from but the system even though it feels flawed was one of if not the most successful PVP systems in any MMO. People loved it as it was. It doesnt need to be "fixed". Matches are never going to feel balanced and that is for better or worse part of the design. Like if the population was large enough I could see matching based off something like gear score and taking consideration for healers possibly work-- but gear only goes so far. A good PVP player can mop the floor with an average player even if the gear favors the average player. You cant really balance for that. Thats especially true on Turtle because a lot of that higher end skill comes down to knowledge. Knowing what you opponents can do and how to counter them is huge and let's be real with all the class changes here I feel that the knowledge gap is way bigger than it would be on Classic. On Classic a huge percentage of PVPers know what most classes are capable of because weve had 20 years of knowledge shared online. On Octo there are a lot of changes and let's be real the majority of players arent aware of every single one of those changes.

Anyways sorry for the wall of text but these issues arent simple to discuss. Theres a lot of nuance that I feel is being ignored.

And to the people telling me to butt out of the conversation because I play on the PVE realm-- I still love PVP and will be spending a considerable amount of my time in BGs so I do in fact have a horse in this race. Changes made to PVP balance and BGs will definitely impact me.

Technically, All problems game got has solutions but those require hard work/testing/implementing etc.

1- Healer balance , if team A got healers and Team B got no healers, let team B's players play healer for that game, switch their warrior/paladin to healer, after game finishes their character returns back. Or give them simple skill for that battleground which fills 25% of their HP when used with 2seconds cooldown, not sharing CD with potion.

2- Put mechanism to replace undergeared people's gear with an avarage only in BG usable gear. Or make everyone play with equal BG gear, that is only usable in BGs and when you leave, your gear has turned back, seen MMOs using those kind of systems. ( not WoW )

3- Queue open world not from NPC, so bored people can also queue, I won't go stormwind to queue because traveling back is about 15-30minutes.

4- X faction